Yah and they do not want to pay their city taxes. With all that profit, and we small tax payers do not have money and still have to pay their share. Greedy that is all.

They also still want their mill in Quesnel to take concessions! Forestry is supposed to be turning around, they are recording profits again but they still want to stick the people who make them that money! Big business at its finest!

They could hire everyone back and start turn out lumber like they did a few years ago. Chance are if they do that there would be a lot more people out of work then there is now. Just because they turned a profit in one quarter out of 2 or 3 years where they were consistantly loosing money doesn't mean all is saved. Open your eyes, the industry is not out of the woods yet.

It wasnt hard to figure out this would be a whine fest for the trivials on here.

Just for the record, for a company the size of Canfor and the amount of assets they have, that isnt that much of a profit.

Exactly, Tom. Maybe people would be happier if Canfor broke even?

I'd be really happy if they used their profit to pay for their own boiler retrofits, instead of getting the taxpayer to donate $120 million to Pattisons' wallet.

For the record, Canfor and Canfor Pulp are two different companies. I believe Canfor Pulp is asking for the assessments to be reviewed, not Canfor, unless Canfor still owns the buildings and there is a lease agreement in place. The two companies each have their own Boards.

http://www.canforpulp.com

http://www.canfor.com

Essentially one is pulp and the other one solid wood.

The subsidy is not about subsidizing the mills. It is about a tit for tat between Canada and the USA when the USA provided their pulp sector with a subsidy.

If Canada would not have done that, they would have taken the risk of moving into "standard practice" and tacitly accepting the illegal trade move by the USA. On top of that, it did give the USA mills an unfair advantage.

So profits are up. To me that is not a big deal. It shows that the cuts they made worked.

What I would like to know is what the total comparative sales volume was for those same period to see how much this company has cut back. When you look at that and relate the profit back to the sales, it will also be interesting to see the ratio of profit to sales which can be one of the indicators of efficiency if one factors out some of the confounding factors such as sell off of inventory.

"The subsidy is not about subsidizing..."

Gus that doesn't even make sense. Read it out aloud to realize what a crock it is. Are you saying we have to give money to Canfor because the US gives money to their mills? Where does it end? You might have a slim argument to make if Canfor was in danger of going bankrupt, but as we see from the article, that is not the case. When a company is making money, it should pay its own way. Because if it doesn't, you can be sure they will be asking for subsidies when times are tough.

As gus said, the subsidies are for Canfor Pulp Limited Partnership (CPLP) and not Canadian Forest Products (Canfor). This story is about Canfor's profits and not CPLP. Two different companies run by two different CEOs & Boards. CPLP is getting the subsidies only if they successfully complete projects to make them more environmentally friendly. They are in the process right now of doing that. The subsidies are not part of their profits. It's all being spent to shut up the 'Air Quality Fairies'.

Herb, they lost 79 million in 2 quarters last year. Now they have a profit of 32.5 million in one quarter this year. My calculator says they still have to come up with 46.5 million to break even.

Is the taxpayer supposed to guarantee that Canfor makes money? Aren't businesses supposed to be able to take risk in order to get rewards? What kind of strange universe do you neo-cons live in where corporate profits are privatized and their costs are borne by the taxpayer?

How much money would Canfor have to make before they had to repay the $120 million of taxpayer money for retrofitting their boilers? The answer is- they never have to pay the money back. It is a taxpayers gift to Canfor, given to them by the Conservatives.

How much "herb" do you smoke?

Is that the best you can come up with? No wonder you vote for Harper.

For the record I have a family member who is in a staff position at Canfor and while there mill is shut down in Quesnel they are paying for his food, gas, and hotel so that he can live and still work in PG!!! He is not laid off and they are definatly not saving money. I agree cost cutting is needed in all areas, but to go back to the union workers and say they have to take cuts. Cuts should start at the top!

The subsidy money is the Cdn. Gov. response, to help level the playing field for this Canadian industry. They subsidize or bail out other industries, so why not pulp and paper? The recipient pulp companies have to do something with the money too, it is not like it is a cash hand out or anything. In PG, the money is being put to good use and there will be local companies benefitting from that, what is wrong with that?
metalman.

"Are you saying we have to give money to Canfor because the US gives money to their mills?"

Yup. That is what I am saying.

There is a trade agreement in place between Canada and the USA. Neither Canfor Pulp nor any other pulp company is a direct party to that agreement. Their operations, however, are impacted by that agreement.

The USA took a unilateral action that was against the agreement. Canada must reciprocate. Instead of going to the WTO, or NAFTA they decided to take the quick route and fight fire with fire. In my opionion that was the right thing to do. The party politics do not come into play here, from my point of view.

If Canada did not take action, the USA would continue to take similar action. Also, I would think that they had some serious discussions with Paprican and their members about having to take some action. A mild threat to sue for not protecting them might have been made.

So, there are subsidies, but they are about protecting a trade pact and the companies affected by the pact. The companies were affected in real terms by the subsidy received in the USA.

Just for the record; canfor owns 50.2% of canfor pulp limited partnership. James F. Shepard; canfor ceo, and Peter Bentley; a canfor director sit on the canfor pulp board of directors. Pretty cozy arrangement for two separate companys, no??

Geez, stompin tom, back trying to stir the pot again. I would have thought you'd be licking your wounds after the slapdown socredible (and others) laid on you yesterday.

joeboy

slapdown?

Havn't seen that, you must be another fool who beleives their half truths, fear mongering and downright lies.

Of course with you being a follower and unable to think for yourself maybe you do believe them.

Metalman and Gus:
If I were Jimmie Pattison I would be delighted to hear your opinions. In fact once I got the $120 million (just for Prince George), I would phone up my buddy Steven Harper and point out that the Americans also pay less for fuel. Pay me please. Then I would point out that Mexicans are used in some timber harvesting areas in the States, so I am at a disadvantage. Pay me please. Also the labour rates are lower in the States. Pay me please.

Get the general idea why this is all a bad idea? At least when the government bailed out General Motors and Chrysler, they got stock and a promise to pay it back. We get nothing back from Canfor. If you agree with this corporate welfare handout, you are a sucker playing Jimmie Pattisons' game of "Heads I win, Tails you lose"

Let's see. I post at 7:14pm. At 7:23 pm stompin tom has posted a reply just dripping with vitriol. Sounds like you're just sitting at your computer, waiting for someone, anyone to pay you some attention. Sad! You should get out more. Get some fresh air. I say this because I'm concerned about you.

As for the slapdown, just go back to the article about ten ridings having more than enough signatures on the hst petition. You started out pretty strong but after someone suggested you may be "a politician" or "Pat Belly" you just folded?? Just an observation.

As for being a fool who "believes their half truths, fear mongering and downright lies". I DON"T BLOODY THINK SO ME BOY-O.
I am not the one who is blindly following and cheering on a known liar. By the way, who would they be; these people feeding me
"half truths, fear mongering and downright lies"? All I see is a few people commenting on the news and you, and a few others, jumping all over them with your jackboots merely because they do not agree
with your version of reality. That's not nice, polite or healthy.

We're all followers in some way. We all follow our own drummer. My personal drummer usually plays CLASSIC ROCK N ROLL.As for believing them; who is them, and what are they whispering in my ear??

You know if you weren't just sitting there,
waiting for my reply, you would have checked out other articles and discovered that the hst legislation passed. You should be ecstatic. Me, I'm ambivalent. It's only the 1st act in what should be an interesting play.

Oh, about your nom de plume, "Stompin Tom"
I think the real "Stompin Tom" may have it trademarked. My bet is he wouldn't like what you're doing with his good name.

You have a good night. God, it's been a beautiful day.

joeboy,

lots of words, sadly you dont bother to respond to anything other than your own rhetoric.

A suggestion that I may be Pat Bell or a politician? IS that worth a response? When you and your brothel refuse to answer specific questions and debates but can only respond with conspiracy theories?

I have been very clear what my interests are in this subject and have debated them. Sadly you done have a clue what your talking about.

Pretty sad.

stumping tom:

Naw, I don't think you're Pat Bell. I would hope we had elected someone with a little more on the ball. Maybe even someone not bordering on insanity. But I could be wrong.

Oh and try not to use big words. You usually mispell them and subsequently fuzzify your argument. That's all it is with you isn't it? Browbeat people; No discussion. Just; look at me.
I'm stompin tom, keeper of the truth. I am
always right. If it's good for me; then it's right. Got that peons?


Conspiracy theories?? I am pushing conspiracy theories? You are a freaking
nutcase. But I guess that's part of your charm. Everyone is out to get you aren't they tom? Just you against the world?

It's a beautiful day. think I'll go for a walk. Maybe see if I can find my "brothel".
You just sit by your computer all day and spew your venom. I'll be back in a few hours. I look forward to an entertaining
reply, full of your usual bull crap.

You're right Herbst. Industry is bad. We should just shut them all down so we can save money on taxes.
metalman.