If we do decide to get rid of the HST, I think we need to consider revamping the PST. The PST is a very poor tax framework.

Why is it that lawyer's fees are subject to PST, but accountant's fees and realtor's fees are not? http://www.businesslawblog.ca/2010/06/about-the-hst-in-b-c-no-tax-increase-on-legal-fees-and-how-the-hst-could-make-your-legal-fees-less-expensive/

Why do we tolerate tax on tax? For example, when a new home is built, the home builder has to pay PST on all the materials, but PST isn't directly charged to the new home purchaser--it's hidden in the price. The GST is then added on top. In effect, you are paying GST on top of the PST. When Vanderzalm was premier, he brought in the property transfer tax and you guessed it, it's tax on tax too--the property transfer tax is applied to the PST, but not the GST/HST. This is only one example of tax on tax, but the situation permeates our entire economy in BC.

The list of exemptions for the PST is huge and the average person has a poor idea of what is exempt and what is not. The PST is an accounting nightmare and even big businesses like Home Depot who have reams of accountants on staff can't keep it sorted out. http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/home+depot+stores+charge+exempt+items/3014910/story.html?id=3014910


The PST encourages businesses to set up in Alberta and employ people in Alberta instead of BC. This also means that the income tax from these jobs and corporations is paid to Alberta and not BC. Personally, I'd like to see more jobs in BC.

I'm having trouble understanding exactly what about the PST that we liked. I can understand that people assumed (and sometimes incorrectly) that they were paying lower taxes with the PST on some items, but wouldn't it be better to lower the HST amount from 12% to 11% or even 10% if that's what we want to do?

I'd much rather have a good tax framework and have a referendum over lowering taxes than simply killing a good framework.

This tax is in trouble. Even educated people who can see the benefits to the tax arent going to vote for more tax. At best they might not vote. This election will be like 100 - 4 in favor of ending the tax. What a waste of money.

Well there is no doubt, the HSt is costing me more and I see no benefit for it.

And Campbell will continue to withold truths on the HST and he will star brwobeating the little guy who gets the HST rebate and I am sure trying to tell them they will lose it....Interesting considering the HST was a GST and I have no doubt that will return so the GST rebate will as well...
so if he trys that he will once again be lying through is teeth...gee normal Campbell

What really bugs me is paying the HST or any Tax on Food, picked up a BBQ Chicken and paid 92 Cents HST on it, so the HST was on the Meat to not only on the Work involved to BBQ it and I have paid Income Tax on the Money I spend, how many more times you get Taxed ?

If I rob a bank, and you know who I am, don't arrest me for one year. In the meantime we all can have a meaningful debate about why I robbed the bank. Politicians think we are such fools. Maybe we are.

What I don't understand is why business backs this tax so much. This tax KILLS exporters. Now you have to charge your customers 12% instead of 5% on just about everything. My guess is the forest industry has tax loopholes and they are just stifling everybody else. It made little sense to buy big-ticket items at home before, now it actually pays to take a vacation to Alberta or the states and come home loaded with stuff you could have bought here if weren't for the multiple taxes you pay on everything. Taxing people to death makes no sense when all your neighbours have little to no taxes - you're just driving people and money away. King Gordo is living in the dark ages - let them eat cake he says!

The rebate to the one million or more British Columbians is to offset the additonal cost to them of the HST. If the HST is recinded, then they have no additional cost, and therefore are not entitled to an HST rebate.

I dont have a problem with having a debate on the pros and cons of the HST tax system, however lets have the debate after the tax is recinded, not while it is in effect. This tax is nothing more than a windfall for busines and corporations at the cost of consumer.

Are we to beleive that business and corporations in BC cannot compete on the world stage without this tax. What a bunch of hogwash.

Firstly I should point out that very few people in Prince George, or BC for that matter are aware of what is produced here, and who our competitors are. We have the natural resources that the world needs, and we have been suppling them for years, and years, and will continue to do so.

This tax is all about giving breaks to business and corportations at the expense of taxpayers and I say its time to stop this BS.

If we are going to continue discussing the issue, then its time for the Government, business, and corporations, to give us some specifics as to how many jobs, will be created, where they will be created, and who will create them.

The fact of the matter is they deal in generalities, and have no responsibility whatsoever to back up what they say with facts.

This whole bloody mess is because of Campbell and Hansen giving a tax break to business and corporations. Thats all it is, so whats to discuss.

If we allow this tax system to come in, then over time we will be paying the same as the Greeks and other Europeans Countries. Somewhere in the area of 19-21%. plus income taxes.

Its time to stop tax increases, and move on to fiscal responsibility.

Have a nice day.

We need to BEWARE of any business that is publishing info or opinions on the HST.
That would include the media etc.
After all, they are a business.
Most businesses favour the keeping HST,so is it safe for us to assume that any info coming from them is telling whole story?
Is it not biased information?
I suspect so,or at the very least, they will slant whatever they are saying in favour of keeping the HST.
Even it they don't make that too obvious, we still need to look long and hard at both sides of the issue and what we are reading or listening to.
So far,I only see some benefits to business, and to hell with the little guy.
No suprises there!
So who do we trust?

As I understand the chicken/poultry farmer/grocer case:

The farmer paid PST and GST on some/all the items required to produce the chicken such as for example:
1. the energy to heat the building, etc.
2. the feed
3. the equipment
4. the equipment repair
5. the transportation cost
6. the insurance
7. the poultry vet
8. ... etc

Since only the GST was claimable against any GST (if any) collected on sales, the cost of those taxes had to be recovered in the price.

Now, since HST is charged on the sale to the grocer, the taxes can be reclaimed as a charge against tax received and only the portion of residual taxes has to be submitted to the government. That, in effect, represents the tax on the value added by the farmer.

The grocer does the same, reclaims the tax she paid to the supplying farmer and submits the tax she received from her customer which also reflects the "added value".

The family manager wanting to put a barbequed chicken on the dinner table ends up paying the value added for all the sub processes involved in the product and none of the producers pay any tax on the products they produce other than on any net profits from the business as well as their labour content.

Theoretically, if the producers play along and reduce their price by their tax savings, the end product should also reduce in price and the total paid by the family manager should end up the same after HST as before with the exception of the value added by the grocer. The family manager is stuck with that.

So, if there is a 100% mark-up by the grocer, for instance, the effective increase would be half of the 7% PST component, or greater if GST component was also increased proportionately somewhere along the production chain.

So the $7.99 chicken should go down in price by the tax on the grocer’s 50% of the cost of the bird to her. So, the HST tax on $4.00 is 48 cents. The bird now should cost $7.51. With 12% HST the total cost to the home manager becomes $8.41 instead of the original $7.99 (assuming no PST or GST) or the current $8.95.

I have not noticed the prices of these chicken come down. Has anyone seen prices come down? That is the real test.

It is all a fairy tale of prices coming down. That is not the real world that I grew up in. There is a total credibility gap as far as I am concerned and has been from the very beginning when the fairy tale from utopia was told to us.

"We need to BEWARE of any business that is publishing info or opinions on the HST."

I say if they are a business, and they are in favour of the HST and their business had no PST on it, then they should be hit with letters, interview question by the media, etc. asking them to outline the amount by which they reduced their prices to the users of their products.

To me that is the fundamental question. I am sure that more often that not one can make them squirm very quickly. If not, and they actually have reduced their price, then they need to be congratulated once they can prove it and used as an example to those who have not reduced their price.

In fact, those businesses who have reduced their price should be published. The quicker that information gets out the more likely it is that their competition will do likewise.

Of course, maybe there are those out there who want to see that fail.

"Most businesses favour the keeping HST,so is it safe for us to assume that any info coming from them is telling whole story?
Is it not biased information?
I suspect so,or at the very least, they will slant whatever they are saying in favour of keeping the HST"

As opposed to the absolute truths that come from the anti HST crowd? :-D

The NDP avowed that it could not/would not do anything about scrapping the HST until after it has been in effect for the contractual five years! The NDP doesn't want to give the money back to Harper, of course.

So, today I feel that things are indeed looking up! There is the recall option, to be sure.

But....if we vote to abolish the HST in September 2011 and win, IT WILL BE abolished in 2011. Very nice!

The election is in May 2013 and the first five year term of the HST expires in July 2015.

Ipso ergo: Under Campbell's scheme we can DUMP the HST almost 4 years EARLIER than if we wait for the NDP to (perhaps) CANCEL it.

Now all we have to do (if we are so inclined) is vote to have it removed in September 2011!

Man, is this a great province or what???

why in the world can ya not re hold an election if over xamount are furious? thes idiots work for us and ..well your fired ,,simple! its time for a hard look at us

Hmmm ... I suspect when push comes to shove and the HST is to be removed based on the vote, it will take a while to do that, perhaps as long as the 5 years due to the agreement.

As I understand though, it is possible to reduce the provincial component, perhaps even substantially.

Well thank you Mr. Morris. Finally an intelligent and reasoned suggestion regarding the issue that's been so blown out of proportion. I support any opportunity to engage in meaningful discussion on any topic.
Clearly, however, the posts on this article suggest that this is going to be a difficult initiative to undertake as ignorance of the issue appears to be the chosen path for most. Whoops! I guess now I'm going to be considered a business owner.

"...it will take a while to do that, perhaps as long as the 5 years due to the agreement."

Not according to the repeated statements by Campbell and Hansen. If more than 50% vote in favour of abolishing the HST they said it will be killed immediately. Hansen already warns people that the money (the carrot) would have to be repaid to Ottawa at that time as well.

Hansen also warns that new staff will have to be hired then to administer the PST when it returns.

I think it is good tax.

We all want an education system, roads, healthcare, social programs yada yada yada.
It all comes from taxes.

Thus we want it, we have to pay for it. So the real question is how do we want to get taxed.

Do you want to pay at the till, or before you get your paycheck. I prefer at the till because at least this way you have a choice. Maybe, you don't need to go out for dinner every friday. Maybe you don't need to get your hair cut every three weeks. extend it to every four weeks. You get a choice at the till.

So the real question is, was Gordo being honest about it all. No, I say lynch Gordo not the party. This comes from a Liberal supporter.

you want to pay less taxes, are you willing to give up subsidized post secondary education. Are you willing for less health care, are you willing to accept worse road conditions.

Is Gordo stuffing all this money in his pocket. No, he is plowing it all back to the programs. If the NDP got in right now, will Carole James get rid of the HST..... Nope even she knows it is a required evil.

Gus, I would suggest you stop eating roasted chicken.

"It made little sense to buy big-ticket items at home before, now it actually pays to take a vacation to Alberta or the states and come home loaded with stuff you could have bought here if weren't for the multiple taxes you pay on everything"

You do realize that for most every big ticket item, there is no difference between the old system and the new system, don't you?

I do not like the HST.
But at the same time, I have emailed Carol (NDP)asking if: 1)Will the NDP remove the HST if elected?; 2. If the HST is removed, what taxes (if any) would the NDP implement????.

After a week there has been no response.

"Maybe, you don't need to go out for dinner every friday. Maybe you don't need to get your hair cut every three weeks"

You probably do not. However, what you are suggesting is make do with less. If you are a barber or a waiter, guess what, you may be the one out of a job, in which case you will not be going out for dinner, nor getting a hair cut.

So much for increasing business, eh? Or do you have a different version of how that will play out?

As a business owner, no my prices have not been affected by the HST since my supplies were already PST exempt. However, my operating expenses were not, therefore in the end my business is now able to post a slight profit (I know that is a bad word, but all of us in business would like to turn a modest profit once in a while. Most business's have been operating in the red for the last two years). My product however has become more affordable to my customers since most of them are businesses and can reclaim the HST.
It is unfortunate that the government didn't reduce the provincial portion to 6 or 6.5% to offset the newly taxed services because we then could have avoided this whole circus. In the end, we will all have to pay taxes one way or the other, but now we have to pay for a costly referendum too.

I think Mr Morris is taking a political position based on his need to see his paycheck funded. Of course he is going to support a debate on the tax that involves fear mongering about what will have to be cut if the tax is rescinded. Maybe it will be his job that is cut I bet he is thinking in the back of his mind... cutting the useless endproduct from the system after all.

I notice no one wants to talk about the actual structure of the tax and its economic implications for all stakeholders involved (ie the employees whose productivity is now devalued 7%, as well as the paying consumer in addition to business). I notice that very few people want to talk about how this is a new tax on the labor industries and that in most cases labor is the largest operating cost of most small businesses... and labor is not an input credit.

Its a hidden flat tax on labor. Something the ndp can be proud of going into an election. Worse yet for those on the margin its a flat tax on ones gross earnings, and not on the profitability of an economic enterprise. Its a hostage slave tax.