Lumber trade wars starting again. Seems we are not charging enough to get rid of garbage wood standing in the woods.

I always thought free trade was about allowing those who produce the product to set their own price and those who want to purchase the product decide whether they wish to purchase it or not.

The USA is not purchasing the stuff anyway. However, if they do wish to do so and pay a higher price, go for it!!! I am sure we'll be happy to commit to putting the extra dollars to regenerating the forests faster.

BTW, we are heavily subsidizing the oil sands operations. We should be charging more to cover environmental cleanup and the energy used to recover the oil from the soil. I am sure the US will understand our view on that.

Price of a barrel of crude oil this morning is the same as it was on Dec 3, 2010 and our dollar is worth more but I don't see the price at the pump dropping any. It was $1.069 back then.
I see that BC still has the highest gasoline prices in Canada.
Maybe all the gas should be trucked in, like PetroCan does , from Alberta. They are paying a full 10 cents a liter less than we are.

Why are school closures not on the agenda this year?

Our school district trustees say there will be a 2.5 million shortfall in the 2011-2012 budget but they will not be closing any schools and then in the next breath they tell us that enrollment will decline by another 300-400 students over the next 2 years.

If Heather Park enrollment is going to decline by 120 this year why not close one of the other schools (Hart Highlands, Glenview, Nukko Lake) and ship the kids to Heather Park. Or shut Giscome and bus the kids to another school until the province decides what it is 'prepared to offer'

Or are the trustees planning on doing what they did for the last 7 years and keep all the schools going until they are forced to close a whole bunch all in the same year which provokes very high emotions from parents, staff and the general public and is a logistical nightmare to complete.

Our trustees really need to open their eyes, realise thier mistakes of the past and make sure they do not happen again.

I'm not keen on school closures - the school my kids went to closed last year but being realistic, if enrollment is down and there is space at another school then a school closure should be on the agenda to save costs.

It is not about the cleanup and energy which is the same as reforestation. The issue is what the people that own the asset, BC residents, charge for the use of the timber.

Lets say the Crown charges $5 per tree. Is this enough? Is the benefit recieved by the BC taxpayer in line with the benefit that the producer pays?

Lets look at this another way. If the government gives Jimmy P trees to run through his sawmills and then sell at a profit is that fair?

The funny thing about the US softwood lobby is that in they have the residual effect of ensuring that the people of BC receive something that resembles fair value for OUR asset. Those trees belong to all of us. They dont belong to Jimmy to use to make lumber to sell at a profit. They dont belong to USW workers or any other special interest group. They belong to all of us.

Below market stumpage is a form of corporate welfare but very few leftys consider that, even while they rail against corporate tax cuts.

So when we refuse to sell our trees at a higher price to the US, Chinese or Japanese we are sacrificing value for the BC resident that doesnt own Canfor stock or work in the forest industry. We are arbitrarily transfering value from one person or group to the next.

new2pg>>don't worry if the Liberals get in again they might close all the schools in SD57 and just fly our kids to Richmond each day.....economy of scale you know??

What is wrong with PG???

Years ago we had at least four movie theaters, now there is only one...and the last time we went to a movie the place was so disgustingly filthy who would want to go back?

The case for free trade on lumber is not as simple as the producers setting the price of their product. Being a commodity, the price is set at the Chicago exchange.

The government has reduced the stumpage on the beetle kill wood in an effort the get the mills to use the wood up before it is of no value except for chips or pellets.

I think the real problem is that our mills are too efficient, much more than the yankee mills. They will find ways to get the best value out of this inferior log. They invest in things like moisture sorting at the sawmill so that the lumber is not over dry when it hits the planer.Grading the lumber via computer scanning is quickly becoming the industry standard.

The Americans should quit whining and put a few bucks back into their mills instead of pointing the finger at us.

Please everyone, drive responsibly out there...don't wait till the last moment to realize you need to change lanes and cut people off. The roads are bad and we all need to be thinking of each other out there.

Why are the Americans picking on us? The Chinese manufacturing industry is flooding the USA with below bargain priced products of the kind that the USA used to manufacture at home! Millions of American workers have lost their jobs and the shops have closed altogether! How come the Americans allow all that? Are we pushed over too easily?

Speaking of driving....if you need to pass someone out on the highway and the road is in bad shape with a nice gravel and slush mixed berm in the middle of the road, don't pass and pull in right away if you don't have to....stick to the other lane for a while and get further down the road some before pulling back in. I know this won't be possible all the time depending on traffic but it would cut down on the amount of windshield cracking rocks and other debris you throw back at the vehicle you were passing........

Good point Mercenary, some people just don't think. It would be nice too if the truckers would try to stay in their lane rather than hug the center line.

Speaking of driving....if you need to pass someone out on the highway and the road is in bad shape with a nice gravel and slush mixed berm in the middle of the road, don't pass and pull in right away if you don't have to....stick to the other lane for a while and get further down the road some before pulling back in. I know this won't be possible all the time depending on traffic but it would cut down on the amount of windshield cracking rocks and other debris you throw back at the vehicle you were passing........

Arrggg!!! sorry for the double post.....computer is acting funky today :(

"Why are the Americans picking on us? The Chinese manufacturing industry is flooding the USA with below bargain priced products of the kind that the USA used to manufacture at home! Millions of American workers have lost their jobs and the shops have closed altogether! How come the Americans allow all that? Are we pushed over too easily?"

Well Prince George It's like this.
Our governments along with business have allowed it, (engineered it if you like) for one simple reason. "Major increases in profit" for business.
What once cost a business $50.00 for an item manufactured in North America, then sold to the consumer here for $100.00, now costs the same business $5.00 and they can sell it for $150.00. Just what do you think all those trade missions to China are all about?


Mercenary, Double posting comments like yours above are permitted. The more exposure to common sense people get the bigger the chance a few may absorb some.

Ya right! Who am I kidding!!!

Prince George, eventually the Americans will have to make the move towards more 'protectionism' or there will be no American jobs left.

We'll have to wake-up and do the same.

Already China, and other sweat-shop countries who have been the beneficiaries of so called "free-trade", which is NOT 'trade' at all, in any way, shape, or form. They have to finance American purchases of their products by buying US Treasury issued debt.

Debt that can only be repaid by actual 'trade', only such a 'trade' cannot occur without devastating unemployment in the country receiving the American imports, as the tables are turned on them. The kind of 'free-trade' we have 'globally' now only enslaves the workers in the exporting country, and impoverishes them in the importing one. If you doubt me, just look at what goes on in much of our forest industry now, with the trend away from the eight hour day, 40 hour workweek. We'll turn those workers remaining in that industry into the equivalent of ants, trying to compete, and we'll still lose.

It is a world-wide, ridiculous, completely unsustainable way to try to make it seem as if our current financial system 'reflects' a physical reality it is becoming ever increasingly detached from.

There is no more a "level playing field" in 'trade' between the USA and China than there is in our government's continued attempts to gain market share for our lumber in American markets over and above what is actually needed in the USA due to a normal shortfall in their own softwood lumber production.

If the USA chose to properly manage their Federal government held National Forest timber lands and sustainably prioritise lumber production from those forests, they would not need to import softwood lumber from anywhere.

They have not, nor are they ever likely to do that. Too many special interest groups want vast swaths of those forests made off limits to any kind of timber harvest whatsoever. So they do need to import lumber from here, or elsewhere, even when their economy is in the tank in regards to new home construction.

"Years ago we had at least 4 movie theaters"...
Indeed we did Jim13135, it was great,but video killed the movie theaters.
It used to take months for first run movies to hit the shelves in a video store but now, they are are out at almost the same time as the movie hits the theaters.
That,and the price of a ticket,popcorn and a coke...whoa!

Looking forward to seeing the new and improved 5th Ave bowling. It was good to hear some locals bought it and are remodeling it.

If the Americans upgraded their mills, then they would be able to sell to their customers for less, and of course they would get more market share. So we of course would still lose.

We need to be competitive in the market, however the Americans have a legitimate case when it comes to Canadian Exports, Stumpage Fees, etc;

In addition the BC Government loses money when they give this beetle killed timber to the forest companies on the cheap. So the question is, how does the Government make up this huge loss of revenue. Could it be through various taxes, and service fees. In other words are we the taxpayer actually subsidizing these mills?.

We can argue that giving the beetle killed timber to the mills cheap. (25 cents a metre) creates work, which is true, however it also creates profits for the companies, and additional taxes for residents of the Province.

The sale of low grade lumber to China at a profit would not be possible without the cheap stumpage fees, so once again we are subsidizing the forest companies. The alternative of course would be to let the trees rot in the bush, and only log high grade trees. This is what we will do once the beetle kill rots or runs out, which will be soon.

The forecast over the next 10 years is for approx 16 to 18 lumber mills to close in BC. Keeping this in mind, will give you a pretty good indication where the lumber industry is headed. Add to that the fact that some of our larger lumber companies have bought a large number of mills in Washington, Oregon, and South and North Carolina, and again you see the direction we are headed.

Wake up and smell the coffee. We need to find other industry to locate in BC and in the North. The alternative will be a continuation of people moving South or leaving the Province.

Contrary to some lines of thought we cannot keep this area alive by building more and more Government entities, because we will not have the tax dollars to pay for the cost of staffing them, and maintaining them.

Have a nice day.

Cost savings are being attained by 'outsourcing'...so how about we outsource our penal institutions?? I am sure there are some areas in India or China that could house our violent criminals for less $$$$ ???? The money saved could be used to provide more services for our senior citizens???

The americans don't want 2x4s they want access to raw logs....we should trade them for some of that cheap gas, milk, booze and cheese they have south of the border??
What is it going to hurt, I don't think our mills could possibly process all the bettle killed trees out there and all the people processing it would be BC residents.[ at least we could hope]

new2pg>>don't worry if the Liberals get in again they might close all the schools in SD57 and just fly our kids to Richmond each day.....economy of scale you know??

Why not...what is the difference between 2-3 hours on a bus or on an airplane?? Think of the possible savings..no more sd57 administration expenses...no more schools to heat and maintain in PG area...higher profits for the airlines...if it's good enough for Dunster, Giscome, McLeod Lk, etc why not PG???

Free Trade?? So why can we not order a rifle scope from the USA..or even minor firearm parts??? Doesn't the Harper govt have the stones to fight this under the Free Trade Agreement??? Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander!!

USA will be a third world country by 2020. When will we follow? Harper loves the yanks. So we should have the same destiny.
Cheers

If you have to pass...HANG UP YOUR F*#@$EN CELL PHONE. I can live with people not adjusting to snow conditions to well, but the last 4 times people have out and out cut me off they have a CELL PHONE up to their head. A- it's illegal B- apparentely you can't do both, Get off the road or hang it up, seriously. I feel better now.

Any thoughts on incandescent light bulbs not bing allowed to be sold. Kind of a stupid hit on our freedoms don't ya think. Does anyone even care.

All the greenies are kind of quiet on the mercury in CFL's. Notice how when it gets very cold one has to wait awhile for light.

Well I can buy my incandescents in Alberta.

If one of those CFL's breaks there is a 20 point checklist on how to deal with it. The first is, if you have a Hazmat suit put it on! Seriously, cleaning up after a breakage is like right out of the twilight zone. A blob of plutonium would less hazardous to handle. I can't believe we are being forced to use something so potentially hazardous.

"I can't believe we are being forced to use something so potentially hazardous"

You just have to look at who is ramming it down our throats to understand why.

Me? I stocked up on incandescent bulbs during the last year. Got about 130 of them. 60's and 100's. I won't run out and if times get a little lean I can always go down on George Street and sell them fer a handsome profit. Heh, heh, heh. The Criminal Code needs to be updated before I can break a law. Right?

I have to say, please don't tailgate me in this weather. If there is an issue and I have to brake, you hit me and its your fault. Also I drive a truck and you tiny little cars are not going to hurt me that bad but I'm sure running your car into me might hurt you. Give yourself space, quit treating the streets like a race track where if you're a minute late you're life will end. And to further everyone's comments on the cell phone and driving - Everytime I see someone in front of me speeding up and slowing down, swaying from side to side in their lane or almost going into other lanes. 9 times out of 10 when I pass them, they are on their phone. TO ALL THE PEOPLE ON CELL PHONES WHILE THEY DRIVE - YOU DRIVE LIKE $HIT!!!!!! STOP BEFORE YOU KILL SOME ONE OR YOURSELF. Ok, now that I have that off my chest I feel slightly better! :)

Don't tell anyone where you live Harbinger :)

Wasn't it the CFLs that were melting and causing fire risks? I don't like them because when they are new they are great but after a short period of time they are quite dim (kind of like politicians). They also don't fit inside many of the light fixtures I have. I think the hazard of improper disposal would far outweigh the amount of electricity used for the old type of light bulb. How much mercury is already in the landfills since this is the first I have heard about it being a hazard associated with the CFLs. How soon will this ridiculous new law be repealed?

10 100W Light Bulbs or a 1000W Baseboard Heater give up the same amount of Heat, take that Gordie in Lotus Land and I do like my Electric Heat no Furnace to buy and any one can replace it. Yes I know Hydro will go up again but so will Gas, you only win if you use your own Wood.

Glad to see the fluoride debate in the USA surfacing again, with dentists reporting that 2 out of five teenagers are experiencing fluorosis (mottling and porosity of tooth enamel) because of too much fluoride in the drinking water combined with the amounts in toothpaste.

The truth is that mass medication with this rat poison should not continue. If a person drinks 8 glasses of city water a day that person gets twice as much as a person who drinks half many glasses of water.

Fluoride tooth paste is toxic enough that if a child swallows as little as a pea sized portion the child should be taken immediately to a poison control centre.

One wonders what the long term effects are on the rest of the human organism.

Apparently Stalin used fluoride addition to the drinking water as a way to stupify his gulag prisoners and keep them docile.

Prince George is the last bigger city in B.C. to keep adding fluoride...others have discontinued its use as there is plenty in toothpaste, and one has a choice to buy with fluoride or fluoride free.

If ya don't like being forced to use poisonous mercury laden light bulbs in order to save electricity so Gordo can sell more electricity to Californee (which can't pay because they are near bankruptcy) why not trundle down to your local (Lib) constituency office with a pair of mercury laden bulbs and explain to the lady there that these bulbs are poisonous and are mercury laden and ya don't like being forced to use them in yer home. Explain to the lady that there is a twenty procedure list when dealing with these bulbs when they break. Throw two of them at the wall making sure they shatter. Tell her after she calls the Haz mat team to clean them up, she can then call her boss who may ask Gordo to revisit this decision. Takes more than a small brush and a dust pan to clean these new bulbs up.In closing, I predict a large majority local sheep (electorate) will not go along with this Liberal global warming scam. exercise.

Geez! How about fluoridating sugar?

Ontario is discontinuing the sale of incandescent bulbs too. So it too fell for this "Liberal" global warming scam, in fact all of Europe seems to be falling for this "Liberal" global warming scam, including the Brits!

Gordo(n) sure has national and international influence, possibly over the whole wide world.

Wow!

I partially retract my previous post concerning breaking mercury laden bulbs on someone elses property. While eating my dinner I just realized I broke the law! It is called "conspiracy to commit...." That is to say if ya talk about breaking the law to to one or more people, you arte in effect creating a conspiracy. Please ignore my remarks. Hey! I know this and I'm not even a lawyer. So there!

Dont like to rain on anyones parade but the legislation regarding lite bulbs was brought in by the Conservative Government and applies to all Provinces, so anyone who thinks they can get incandescants from Alberta better re-think their strategy. The only place you will be able to get them will be the USA

Dont like to give the Liberals credit for anything, however this screw up is not theirs.

Harbinger... that's a very valid idea. If they want to legislate a hazardous product into your home, then they should be perfectly alright with a broken bulb in their constituency office.

Prince George... its mandated (CFL's) by the Bilderburg banksters... Gordo was just taking his marching orders along with Europe and the rest of the NWO government puppets (the EU is the NWO model). Its about population control and not energy conservation. Also I notice toady the US government has decided to start regulating fluoride in the water to prevent cities like PG from abuse of this product... one has to know its bad when the American government wants to see fluoride in the water reduced.

As for the filament light bulbs, I too stocked up. I cleaned out the dollar store of their entire stock. The CFL's in addition to being potentially poisonous to my home, they also make me depressed the light they give off, and I get a head ache from them. I just find it a treasonous tragedy that our government could even mandate a safe product to be illegal in order to promote a very hazardous product... its ludicrous and a violation of our right to choose.

Palopu... can you provide proof of that? I'm pretty sure its a province by province legislation... and not Canada wide.

Fair warning about using Google gmail.

They do monitor all emails on their 'free service'. They are also owned and administered by hard core zionists, and will use their abuse of their 'service' for their own political agenda.

If one is to send an email using gmail and include key words like say for example university a few times... within minutes all the advertising will be about universities... if use the word immigration, then all the advertisements will go to immigration consulting... ditto for what ever else is in your personal emails. They read your emails and tailor the advertising to your interests in your emails.

Now if you experiment a little further... build a fresh email account and exchange emails between your own accounts with a critic on the politics of zionism... you will receive nasty emails in return with very rude and crude talking point messages of hate and even death threats... since the only messages from the account were internal this brings only one conclusion as to how one's email account was found, and that is that Google monitors the account and if they don't like the politics (criticism of zionism) they will practice intimidation through spam mail as a result of the intelligence gathered spying on your communications (they will also claim ignorance if you complain). Apparently if a threat is sent over international boarders it is perfectly legal. If you don't believe me about google then try test it for yourself and find out.

The moral of the story is that 'free' email services like gmail, yahoo, hotmail, facebook, and others may very well be free and convenient... but they are in no way private forms of communication. If you want your communications to be private then one should only use the traditional email service providers like shaw, telus, uniserve and such directly from your internet provider.

Fair warning to others is all... conspiracy or coincidence... you be the judge.

PS In Israel even companies now have to swear allegiance to the politics of zionism or risk loosing all government contracts and licenses. Its beyond fascism at this point when it involves political allegiance to even do business, and involves the cover of religion to provide legitimacy to the political movement... the most dangerous ideological threat to our world and civilization today IMO... all aided and abetted by the likes of google and their other bankster finance monopoly globalist multinationals.

Barton leads Republican effort to repeal light bulb ban
January 7th 2011

WASHINGTON: Reps. Joe Barton, R-Texas, Michael Burgess, R-Texas, and Marsha Blackburn, R-Tennessee, joined 12 other Republicans to reintroduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act or BULB Act, H.R. 91.

The BULB Act repeals Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, which is a de facto ban on the incandescent light bulb.

“This is about more than just energy consumption, it is about personal freedom. Voters sent us a message in November that it is time for politicians and activists in Washington to stop interfering in their lives and manipulating the free market."

Provincial legislation bans the light bulb in 2011 and the federal ban comes into effect across Canada in 2012.

A good read up on the mercury used in the new CFL bulbs... as much lost in its processing as is used int eh bulbs themselves... mostly manufactured by slave labor in China who all suffer from mercury poisoning as a result. Good environmental 'free trade' police at its best... slave labour, environmental subsidization by Chinese standards, mercury poisoning for all... and of course profits.

http://www.ceolas.net/

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BC Legislation plan for banning the light bulb.
http://www.productcare.org/documents/Draft%20BC%20Fluorescent%20Lamps%20Stewardship%20Plan%20-Aug%202009.pdf

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US Bill to repeal the light bulb ban
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/31907

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Health risks of CFL bulbs.
http://www.hans.org/magazine/246/Canada-to-Ban-Incandescent-Bulbs

Toxic light?
Depending on the level of exposure, the effects can include a decrease in IQ, delays in walking and talking, lack of coordination, blindness, and seizures. In adults, extreme exposure can lead to health effects such as personality changes, tremors, changes in vision, deafness, loss of muscle coordination and sensation, memory loss, intellectual impairment, and even death, according to Health Canada.

Infants and unborn children may be at the most risk. According to Health Canada, if a pregnant woman is exposed to methyl mercury it can cross the placenta into the fetus, where it would build up in the fetal brain and other tissues. This heavy metal can also be passed to an infant after birth through breast milk. A child's developing nervous system is particularly sensitive to methyl mercury.
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Looks like Palopu is right about the Federal conservatives. Gary Lunn it appears leads the charge in Canada in implementing the mercury bulbs in our homes.

The cruel joke of the CFL's is the rational behind them is not to reduce energy consumption, but rather to reduce mercury in the environment from coal fired power plants.

In BC however we have no coal fired power plants, and in fact have 95% of our electricity produced by none carbon emitting sources... completely invalidating the whole rational behind CFL's in the first place. The only other argument is that a filament bulb looses heat that then has to be cooled with air conditioning... again not a big problem in BC for most of the year and again built on the assumption that air conditioning power comes from coal fire power plants.

So essentially our government banned filament light bulbs on a coal fired power plant argument, and thereby needlessly put at risk everyone's homes and ground water sources at risk of mercury poisoning for political correctness....