Good luck, tell me how it worked out.

Maybe people are less and less worried about the HST because they are realizing that the sky didnt fall?

The recall legislation is so weighted to ensure that it fails, that it is just about impossible to accomplish. It was a feel good motion that the government was providing a potential way for the citizenship to have a way of recalling wayward politicians, but in reality it just isn't possible.

They should make the trigger point, the same percentage of the population who actually voted in the last general election and not what it is at present.

The sky didn't fall but neither did prices and no jobs are being created because of it. Two of the reasons we were given why this tax is supposed to be good for us. Our grocery bill has increased since the intrduction of HST. A lot of people don't realize that, even if the actual tax isn't added to the item you buy, the end result is still a price increase to that product because of the handling of it before it gets to the store. A lot of our staple items (not junk or luxuries) have increase by up to 15% since the introduction of this tax. So either stores are taking advantage of people expecting prices to go up therefore they are gouging the consumer or it is costing more to get products onto the shelves. Anything a politician feels necessary to sneak in under the radar wouldn't give me cause to think it's good for me.

The sky didnt fall and the unemployment rate in Prince George is down for the third month in a row and is below the national average. Does that tell you anything???

Doesn't tell me anything. Layed off workers are moving away from Prince George in search of work and other workers have run out of EI so they are not STATS anymore. That's what makes it looks like there are less unemployed. HST is costing the consumer thousands of dollars show me it isn't.

I agree with lunarguy.How can politicians expect people to obtain 40% of people who were registered to vote in the previous election.Lets say you have 15,000 registered voters in a riding,and 8000 people bothered to vote in the previous election.They expect the people to now obtain 6000 signatures,when only 8000 gave a crap in the first place.Recall is a joke,is doomed to fail and is a complete waste of time.I also agree with acopolympics that prices have gone up,coffee,cheese,milk etc.,and then the HST on top of the increase.As for the unemployment numbers,the guys finished at Clear Lake Mill will not be counted for awhile,until there severance runs out, and then they can collect EI if they still need too.

"HST is costing the consumer thousands of dollars show me it isn't."

That is correct.

The real message by the government is "do not consume so much!!"

Put you heat down to 15C and wear a sweater bought at Value Village.

Eat less and lose some weight.

Learn how to repair your own car or bicycle.

Share - double up in the apartment or get a second family into the house.

Get your neighbour over to watch a movie and share the cost of downloading, retning or monthly cable bills.

Generally, before you buy, think ... and don't buy unless your life depends on it.

Above all, don;t buy bottled water; drink from the tap.

You will be surpirsed how much the implementation of the HST can actually help you save and live with a better conscience.

Of course, the government will have to put some more money into unemployemnt and job retraining due to the shut down of several frivolous businesses.

Disregarding completely any increase in taxes (HST,GST,PST...) groceries (food) prices have risen sharply on a global scale (worldwide) in the last year and during the beginning of this year!

That is why there have been food price riots in various countries and they are part of the reasons for demonstrations by people in certain countries: Lack of democracy, joblessness and ever higher food prices!

Recall legislation was introduced ny the NDP as a *democratic* feel good measure only because the bar was set intentionally so high that failure is virtually assured before it even gets under way!

Which is fine with me as far as a Pat Bell recall goes.

Mr Allen, did you get bought off? or scared off?
I guess it really doesn't matter does it..the result is the same...
Campbell wins again

Shirley Bond would be a much easier target. And there already is an alternative to the Fiberals and NDPeePee - the Conservatives.

"The real message by the government is "do not consume so much!!"

"You will be surprised how much the implementation of the HST can actually help you save and live with a better conscience."

"Of course, the government will have to put some more money into unemployment and job retraining due to the shut down of several frivolous businesses."

-------------------------------------------

Why would the "government" have to put any money into "job re-training" if no one is consuming anything 'frivolous'? What's the point? We already have the capacity to produce way more than we need of both essential and 'frivolous' goods.

In the last period of 'boom' in our economy, before the financial meltdown, Canada's industries, on average, were only operating at 86% of their rated capacity. And in any 'boom' a great amount of FURTHER productive expansion is taking place.

In a more normal, non-boom, non-bust, period, we're only running at around 72-75% of rated capacity, on average. Take out the production of anything frivolous, and just concentrate on the necessities ~ the three basics of food, clothing, and shelter, plus the three further necessities for long term survival, education, medical care, and personal security ~ and we'd be way less than that, and there'd be very little opportunity for any employment growth through re-training.

If the real message of the government is as you say above, "do not consume so much", then WHY, pray tell, are those same governments so worried about our "productivity", and increasing "investment"? For if we're not supposed to consume so much, what is the real point of producing it?

HST may very well be a limiting factor on people's frivolous consumption, if that were in some way desirable, but it DOESN'T just apply to things which could be considered frivolous. It hits the two essentials of clothing and shelter, and in regards the latter it taxes your spending from what you've "borrowed" (through mortgaging a new home to be able to buy it), as well as spending from what's left of what you've "earned".

There is substantial indication that the worldwide rise in food prices is NOT the result of any real shortage of supply, but rather that some major 'money' manipulators are fooling with certain commodity futures markets, trying to "corner the market". When you look at just WHO these people are, it sure makes you wonder whether turning a quick buck is all they have in mind.

Thank god /or how ever you pray to, that no recall has happened. The out come would most likely result in an NDP winning the seat. Then we would be back in the Glenn Clark era. history would repeat its self and all bussiness would go to Alberta. I do not want to go work in Alberta again to feed my family and keep my house.

I am not surpised that Eric Allen and Mike Summers both fled the BC Refederation Party and are now a part of the BC First Party. I just happen to believe that 2 parties are enough and 64 parties is ludicrous. Lets just have Republicans and Democrats, which is all we really need. They can change their policies to fit what "we" decide.

There is absolutely no point in complaining about the Liberals if no one has the **balls** to vote for or recall an MLA because the NDP might form the Government. This sort of thinking plays into the hands of the Liberals, and that is the reason why they can treat us like fools, and get away with it. Basically it is a form of blackmail ie; vote for us or the **bad** NDP will get into power.

The problem is that the people who are worried about the NDP dont seem able to focus on how bad they are being screwed by the Liberals. I myself would not vote NDP, but I can tell you when it comes to getting screwed the Liberals have them beat all to hell.

1. BC Rail fiasco.
2. HST Billion dollar tax shift to Corporations.
3. Major mills shut down because of the policy of appurtency
4. Carbon Tax
5. Lowest minimum wage in Canada
6. Olympic Games, Sea to Sky Highway, and other huge expenditures in the Vancouver area
7. New fines and expropriation of your vehicle if you blow between 05-08 BAC. This doesnt mean that you are impaired, because to be impaired you have to exceed .08. So this new legislation is nothing more than a money grab. 32000 tickets in 2010 generates income in excess of 5 Million dollars.
8. Increased BC ferry charges, with more increases to come.
9. Increases in Hydro, with more increases to come.
10. They were against gambling, and have steadly increased it since they came to power, including on line gambling, while at the same time reducing the amount of money they give to charties.
11. If you think that the Fast Ferries was a fiasco, wait until you see what they paid the Germans to build the three new ferries. Plus I understand that one of the new ones is being stored at the dock in Nanaimo because they are gas guzzlers and are too expensive to run.

The list goes on. So the Liberals my be a great friend to big business, however they are not a friend to the average tax payer, and that is why we need another viable party to run for election in BC..

Insofar as Recall goes, people should keep in mind that any Citizen in any riding can launch a recall campaign. Just because Allen doesnt think that it would be successful doesnt mean someone else couldnt start to recall either Bell or Bond and prove him wrong.

"For if we're not supposed to consume so much, what is the real point of producing it?"

For EXPORTING it, whatever it is! Sell it to the rest of the world, it works for China, doesn't it? And it has been vital for other countries (Germany, Japan, South Korea...) for a very long time!

We have most of the raw materials (how fortunate we are compared to other countries who have to buy those before they make something for exporting!) so what is the excuse, the holdup and the whining all about?

It is so very obvious, so glaringly plain to see!

Maybe too many eggheads, too many ditherers? Too much fear of not being able to compete? Too much fear of failure?

Innovate, register patents, make a better product which will sell on QUALITY even if it is higher priced!

Pal, another dose of doom and gloom in spite of the glorious sunshine and blue sky!

I am going for a walk! Have a nice day!

The recall legislation was designed to get rid of local MLAs that need to be booted out because of their own actions. For example Paul Reitsma who was successfully removed due to a recall campaign in 1998. He resigned when he realized the recall would succeed.

The recall legislation was not designed to punish the governing party or re-fight a lost election and that is why every recall campaign launched for those reasons has failed.

"11. If you think that the Fast Ferries was a fiasco, wait until you see what they paid the Germans to build the three new ferries. Plus I understand that one of the new ones is being stored at the dock in Nanaimo because they are gas guzzlers and are too expensive to run."

Everybody knows how much the ferries cost. Contrary to the FAST ferries they actually WORK!

One of the new ferries is indeed moored because ferry traffic is a seasonal business and the corporation decided to run a smaller (less fuel consumption etc) on that run in order not to run a big ferry which is running at a low ridership!

I just heard the interview last night on the CBC.

You should be glad because if the corporation would NOT do that you would be yelling and screaming that it is wasting our money needlessly!

It is totally true that it is impossible to please some people no matter what!

BTW, B.C. Ferries is planning to convert older ferries to LNG, liquified natural gas. There are only two Scandinavian countries who are presently capable of bidding on contracts to do the conversions. B.C. Ferries will award the contracts to the most qualified bidders.

New B.C. ferries when ordered will have to be powered by LNG. LNG is cheaper, pollutes less and Canada has plenty of it.

Once again, B.C. does not have the experience, capability or established reputation to be in the running.

If Sweden or Norway get the business get ready for more endless complaining!

Pat Bell, Minister of Forests and Range. Tell me why there are no sawmills north of Houston. Any logging that goes on in the north/northwest part of the province has stumpage based on shipping to Houston. There are contractors up there who are getting our prime timber that is being shipped overseas directly as logs to the asia market at .25 cents cubic meter stumpage. How is this good for BC? Not only are jobs being shipped out, but we arent even making any money on the trees either. This is a fact, I know it from first hand experience. These trees are so prime that they are being topped at 8-10 inches and the rest is laid to waste in the bush. What mill in BC would get away with such waste? This is the policy maker you don't want to try to get rid of.

"There is substantial indication that the worldwide rise in food prices is NOT the result of any real shortage of supply, but rather that some major 'money' manipulators are fooling with certain commodity futures markets"

Manipulation of commodity markets is definitely happening now, and will only increase in the future. Watch for ever higher food prices.
As always, love of money and/or power is at the bottom of most of what negatively affects the majority of the worlds' population. Except maybe the weather.
Time to plant a garden.
metalman.

prince George:-"For EXPORTING it, whatever it is! Sell it to the rest of the world, it works for China, doesn't it? And it has been vital for other countries (Germany, Japan, South Korea...) for a very long time!

We have most of the raw materials (how fortunate we are compared to other countries who have to buy those before they make something for exporting!) so what is the excuse, the holdup and the whining all about?

It is so very obvious, so glaringly plain to see!"
-----------------------------------------
THINK, Prince George, THINK! We are NOT supposed to 'consume' as much, according to what Gus says the government is trying to tell us with a tax on consumption like the HST. If that's the case then why do we want to work harder to EXPORT more? For some other country's 'money'? What good does that do US? We're not supposed to CONSUME, remember ~ so what in the world do we want THEIR 'money' for? It's only good for what it'll BUY, Prince George you can't do anything else with 'money'.

BTW, I have it on good authority that BC Ferries regularly cannibalises parts off one of their new kraut Queens to keep the other two going. Apparently sourcing parts made to European specs in North America is a bit of a problem.

I am thinking, what is wrong with other countries' money? The Chinese don't spurn other countries' money, why would we?

If you can't spend it without having misgivings about consuming something you can give it to me! I'll donate it to schools, hospitals, cancer research, to build highways, bridges, homes for the homeless, better healthcare, higher education, scholarships, you name it!

Don't be shy!

*Kraut* is a derogatory expression, you should know better than that!

I'll say it again: Compete in the global world or suffer the consequences!

No, Prince George, the Chinese don't spurn other countries' money, because they need that money to buy the resources of those countries. Countries like Canada, Australia, and to some extent, the USA. Or pay for resources like Middle Eastern oil, where the Arabs want US dollars (still), not Chinese money and anything it might buy.

There is nothing particularly "wrong" with other countries' money, not any more than there is wrong with ours. It is EFFECTIVE DEMAND for THEIR goods and services, or OUR 'money' at whatever the exchange rate happens to be.

China doesn't spend Chinese money to buy Canadian resources. It first of all has to buy Canadian money to do that.

What happens is some fancy ledgerdemain between the central Bank of China and our very own Bank of Canada. The result of which is that the Bank of Canada increases the supply of Canadian money, to allow the Chinese to buy our resources for export to China.

Theoretically, we get a 'credit' which allows us to buy Chinese money, to purchase its equivalent in Chinese goods for export to Canada ~ IF THAT'S WHAT WE WANT.

Only that ISN'T exactly what WE want at all. Far from it. For when those Chinese goods, which are artificially "cheaper" than the same goods made here, (due to the FACT that China has a currency which is "pegged" at a very low exchange rate to ours), are imported, it unemploys Canadian labour, and Canadian capital, which could have made the same goods here. And, in all too many cases, previously did just that.

Why do we do it then, you ask? We do it because our financial system, as it is presently constituted, is not fully "self-liquidating" otherwise. Why? Because in EVERY modern industrial economy there is ongoing "labour displacement", (even in China ~ which is still in the 'pioneer' stage of its industrial development, but at the rate they're going they are already quickly surpassing that stage. Same as we did, back when WAC Bennett was overseeing all the great growth we witnessed here in the 1950's and even more so, the 1960's. Wonderful while it lasts, but it is NOT sustainable. And carries with it some problems that CAN NOT be overcome without some fundamental changes to "finance" itself.)

With "labour displacement", overall Consumer Incomes fall in ratio to the overall Costs of Production they have to fully liquidate through Sales. So we have to have an "excuse", because in reality that's all it is, for an overall increase in money that is distributed to Consumers here, but is not "costed" into the price of anything for sale here.

We will literally impoverish ourselves in terms of our resources if we continue this policy. And even all the faster if we try to expand it. All we will get out of it is a cruel illusion of 'prosperity' that is really just the opposite ~ an ongoing pernicious 'inflation' that will make us all just as 'financially' poor in terms of what our money will buy, as our country will be 'physically' poor from stripping it of our REAL wealth to send off elsewhere.

International 'trade' is a wonderful thing. When it IS actually just that. TRADE. Our relative surpluses for their relative surpluses, with the sensible purpose of allowing the diversification of Consumer choice in each country.

What we're promoting through Gordo's globalism is NOT that kind of trade. It is a lop-sided quest for 'money' to make a flawed financial system seem as if it's working "for" us, when in reality it is doing just the opposite. None of his would be successors understand that, nor do their counterparts in the NDP. Because they don't, the over-riding policy of BOTH those Parties is ONE AND THE SAME. And doomed to failure. And that is not 'pessimism' ~ that is FACT, as we'll surely soon witness.

It was Lenin who proposed crushing the "middle-class" (who were a far greater threat to any 'dictatorship' than the "rich" will ever be) between the two grindstones of TAXATION and INFLATION.

And that's just what we're being crushed between today.

The Party labels may be different, but the same policy prescribed by Lenin is being set upon us by those we elect today. Whether of the 'right', or of the 'left'.

All that varies is the "method". Choosing which Party will govern us becomes akin to a choice of being hanged, shot, or boiled in oil. Life, and one more abundant, ISN'T on the menu. It's long past time it should be.

Prince George, there are already ferries in BC that have been run on LNG. For years. It's not new technology. We DO have the capability to install it, we don't have to go to Scandinavia or anywhere else to have such ships built or converted there. While our own shipyards, so long as they still exist, and their employees, both of which contribute mightily in taxation to multiple levels of government in this country, scratch for other jobs.

If you lived on Vancouver Island, and had to regularly endure one and two sailing waits to get on a boat to the mainland, you'd find little sympathy with the idea of a ferry that our tax dollars and a now usurious fare have funded sitting idle, tied up to the dock.

So a million dollar a year American import can further boost his bonus by showing that BC Ferries is making money.

Your blood would start to boil when you finally do get on board, after being held captive in the parking lot for three or four hours, and then have to endure another line-up, like a herd of cattle at a feed-lot, to have the further priviledge of choking down what now passes for food on one of those tubs.

At two to three times the price a more edible rendition of the same slop could be had for ashore. And not cold by the time you get it to your table, if you can find one.

It used to be said that 'profit' was the end result of SERVICE. Not any more.

Gone are the days when a trip on BC Ferries was a pleasant affair. When you drove into the terminal shortly before the ship was due to leave and you got right on. Or they had another ship to take the overflow.

When a good meal at a reasonable price, actually served to you at your table was the norm. When you could look at the photo displays of the various BC BUILT ships of the fleet, and how forward thinking had allowed for those short, stubby, original little vessels to be stretched and lifted and have new car decks added to handle increasing demand.

All in BC SHIPYARDS, employing BC citizens, with pay cheques spent HERE.

Contrast that with the kraut Queens (and if that term is derogatory, so be it) ~ I've nothing against the
German shipbuilding industry ~ their U-boats and pocket battleships of the last war were truly technological marvels. As the number of our Merchant Mariners and Armed Forces personnel who were on the receiving end of their prowess could well attest to, if they were still alive to do so.

And it's nice to see they've now turned their considerable talents towards more peaceful purposes and can make ships for countries who can't. After our tax dollars, and those of the Americans, helped rebuild their industries, including shipbuilding, after the last big dust up.

But our country, British Columbia, doesn't need their services. We can build our own ships HERE. Ones we can get parts for, here. Ones made to North
American specs. So when, though I've never heard of it happening on a ship built here, the car deck doors don't open, (again!), the passengers don't have to wait until the boat turns around, and they can then all experience backing their cars off it.

There was no reason to have those ships built outside of BC, except for the perverted 'globalist' ideology of a twit who could only win an election against what seemed, at the time, to be even worse incompetence. Hard to imagine now that it could've been, but I suppose anything's possible.

You say we can build our ships here! It has been done: The Fast Ferries, remember?

Are we building our own 747s here? Our own jet fighter planes? Our own school buses? Our own huge stainless steel brewing vessels? Our own everything which is imported rather than shipped in? You should blame all of that on a twit, the one you keep mentioning!

I am sure that it would have been o.k. with you if those ferries had been built in Seattle, where the Boeing planes come from.

Your insistence on using a derogatory term against a certain country (this site obviously does not mind!!!) shows that it has nothing to do where the ships came from as long as they did not come from that particular country for which you have an agenda of scorn and ridicule.

So be it! Your other arguments have no validity as far as I am concerned because bigotry is not one of the things I brush aside easily.

It HAS been done, PG. The two ferries that crossed the Fraser River at Fort Langley, now removed from service because of the opening of the Golden Ears bridge, were both powered by LNG. Finning did the conversions on their engines years ago.

The FastCats were the result of what happens when any elected politician, no more than a 'second-rate expert' at best, (and far from even that in Glen Clark's case ) tries to tell 'first-rate experts' HOW to do their job.

It wasn't Clark's job to tell anyone HOW the boats should be built, or even whether those kind of vessels were appropriate for the job.

It WAS his job to tell those with expertise in design and construction what the public wanted in the way of RESULTS in getting from one side of the pond to the other in a more timely and efficient manner. And what side-effects would be unacceptable. (Like the wake that hit the shore at Bowen Island when the FastCats came by under full throttle.)

Washington State has a publicly owned ferry system like ours. Their ships have to be built, by law, in Washington State. If a State of the country that is the world's foremost bastion of free enterprise can have a law like that ~ because it makes SENSE to support your own industries wherever possible, when those industries and their workers are paying the taxes that support government~ why can't we do the same?

It would be different if we didn't have those industries, and not practical for us to have them. But BC DOES have shipyards, and the spin off benefits from having them is of CONTINUING advantage to us as a maritime and industrial Province. Far more so than having a few more layers of high-end condos occupying the same land so some land-pimping property developer can make a one time killing running up the price of waterfront real-estate.

Since I am not prepared to argue ad infinitum about what could have been and what should have been here are the irrefutable facts why the ferries were ordered from the country which you think is unworthy and deserving of derogatory comment:

"The argument for domestic construction of the ferries is that it would employ numerous British Columbia workers, would revitalize the sagging B.C. shipbuilding industry, and entitle the provincial government to a large portion of the cost in the form of taxes. However, European shipbuilders had far more experience and shipyards that were more capable of constructing the ships at a significantly lower cost, and contract terms with European shipyards could be negotiated that were superior to what was likely to be available from B.C. shipbuilders.

On September 17, 2004, BC Ferries finally awarded the vessel construction contract to Germany's Flensburger shipyard. The contract protects BC Ferries from any delays through a fixed price and fixed schedule contract, and the performance of the ferries is guaranteed with strong contractual requirements. Coastal Renaissance entered service in March 2008, while Coastal Inspiration was delivered the same month, and entered service in June. The third ship, Coastal Celebration, has been delivered and is now in service as well.

On August 18, 2006, BC Ferries commissioned Flensburger to build a new vessel for BCF's Inside Passage route, with the contract having many of the same types of terms as that for the Coastal Class vessels. The new northern service vessel, Northern Expedition, has been delivered."

I sincerely hope that politics of WWI and WWII or any other past irrational conflicts will again NOT be a deciding factor when my government selects the best deal possible for the taxpayers in the future. Flensburger will bid again and will build the same high quality vessels for which it is internationally reknown.

This is 2011, not 1911.

Germany always allows other countries to bid on government contracts. Bombardier (of CANADA) is building cars in Germany for German subways and railways. No need to cite other numerous examples.

GM and FORD have been making cars and trucks in Germany for many decades. Nobody complaints. German car makers are used to compete with them and wherever necessary!

That is the big difference.

Over and out.

Make that: for which it is internationally known, and: nobody complains.

BTW, Clark knew that BCF was going to need new ferries asap. He tried to employ the BC shipbuilding industry with a major contract. Not a bad idea. The type of vessel was a bad idea. Everything went way over budget, although he had promised it would not. He claimed that there would be no extra money needed, everything was paid for down to the last roll of toilet paper!

At the end of the day: BCF was in even greater need of new ferries, but the new ones did not work as planned.

Flip to the next page: When the "twit" took over there was no more time left to wait! No more time for experiments! He ordered the ferries from the source which was the best choice (as outlined in another post) and got things going as fast as possible.

If it was anybody's fault that the ferries came from elsewhere it was the fault of the twit that goofed with the decision to gamble and go ahead with the ultimately unfit locally made ferries.

I was leader of BC Refed and due to health issues, I stepped down.

But there is a real possibility of a snap election, and with BC First and BC Refed fighting over the same turf, I jumped over to the BC NDP because I absolutely believe that they are our only hope to save some of BC's assets.

The Liberals have got to go.

The total purchase price of the three new ships was €206.4 million or approximately CAD $325 million at the time of the contract's announcement (September 2004).

According to BC Ferries at this time, this was 40 percent lower than the lowest Canadian shipyard's bid. Since that time, the Canadian dollar substantially increased vis-à-vis the euro. As of March 2006, due to exchange rate fluctuations, the total translated purchase price dropped to CAD $290 million, an unanticipated savings of approximately $35 million in BC Ferries' favour.

There were 14 bids for construction in total, three from within Canada, and the remainder from elsewhere. The decision to build the ships outside of Canada was unpopular, particularly in BC. There were parties who argued that the Federal government should have stepped in to ensure these new ferries would be built in Canada. Part of the argument was that for reasons of national sovereignty, Canada needed to retain a shipbuilding industry, so there are Canadian shipyards to service Canadian Naval vessels. BC Ferries intended to request the Federal Government waive the 25 percent import duties (there is no free trade agreement between Germany and Canada), but BC Ferries must show that West Coast shipyards are no longer capable of constructing a vessel the size of the ‘Coastal Class’ ferry.

Another reason BC Ferries chose Flensburger's bid was that aside from taking the risk of construction cost overruns, Flensburger also provided guarantees on the ships' delivery dates and performance.

For example, if the ships are not timely delivered to Victoria, BC, then BC Ferries was permitted to levy penalties of CAD $40,000 (€25,000) per day up to a maximum of $6 million. After delays of 180 days, BC Ferries could rescind the contract for a full refund. However, construction proceeded ahead of schedule at one point and was completed under budget.

Additional penalties were based on vessel performance. Had a vessel's service speed fallen short of her contract performance specifications, BC Ferries could levy a fine of CAD $160,000 (€100,000) per tenth of a knot below specifications. If the ferries had fallen one knot below specifications, BC Ferries could similarly cancel the contract for a full refund. However, as BC Ferries is in dire needs of new ships to replace its ageing, single hulled V-class ferries, a problem increasingly in the media cross-hairs since the March 22, 2006 foundering of the MV Queen of the North, it was unlikely the corporation would have cancelled any new ferry for being too late or too slow.

According to BC Ferries, none of the Canadian shipyards' bids provided similar guarantees. The cost certainty guarantee was a significant consideration for BC Ferries (especially since the recent steel price increases) after being liable for cost overruns on the Pacificat fast ferries, which were partially responsible for toppling the New Democratic Party of British Columbia government in the 2001 provincial election.

BC Ferries also acquires the new vessels' design plans as part of the contract; BC Ferries does not hold title to the design, plans or drawings of the Spirit Class ferries.

Oh, c'mon, Prince George. You don't believe all that BC Liberal propaganda, surely?

Campbell decided to punish what he saw as spoiled, unionised BC shipyard workers. Ones who'd made good wages, and who needed, and got, considerable re-training at the BC taxpayers' expense in constructing all aluminum vessels, as the FastCat boats were.

His warped mind somehow held THEM responsible for the ineptitude of his predecessor, when the final cost ballooned from the $ 210 million total Clark told everyone the three boats would cost, to the $ 450 million they finally did. (Campbell himself later blew more than that on the cost over-runs of some of his pet projects leading up to the Olympics!)

But he was going to show BC labour that he could be a 'tough guy', and award the contracts elsewhere.

The FastCats, even though they did not perform as anticipated, (and were about as uncomfortable to ride on as Sky Train at rush hour!), could have still filled the gap until three more appropriate vessels could be constructed.

Even Bill Vander Zalm, certainly no friend of the NDP, nor enemy of the BC Liberals AT THAT POINT, remarked on the folly of not using three new ships. And that the problems encountered with them surely were not so huge that they could not be corrected now they'd been identified in service.

If SERVICE to the people of Vancouver Island had been a priority, as it SHOULD HAVE BEEN, they could've been used until more appropriate ships were constructed.

Ones similar to the two "Spirit" class ships commissioned when Social Credit was in office, and constructed by pre-fabricating all the major components in a number of BC shipyards all over the Coast, and then moved to one yard for final assembly. Much in the manner Boeing now builds its airliners. Fast and efficient, and we'd already demonstrated that such co-ordination is readily do-able here, too, by the success we've had with those two large 'made-in-BC' ferries.

Just as Glen Clark compounded his mistakes times three by building all the FastCats at once, when a completely new design had not been proven in service, so did Campbell demonstrate his equal ineptitude in the disposition of those boats. When the decision was made to sell them, for purely political purposes, he ended up leaving $ 60 million on the table by auctioning them off, instead of accepting a much better previous offer. And just how much did Dennis Washington re-sell them for, after picking them up for a song?
We'll never know. But they WEREN'T sold for scrap, that's for sure!

We always hear about the incompetence of the NDP, and all too often rightly so. They did indeed make some real boners in their ten years of office.

But during that period, up in the Kootenays, there was a brand new ferry constructed to further service the 45 minute FREE run across Kootenay Lake. To make it a two vessel run, instead of just one.

The M.V. Osprey is an example of what British Columbians CAN do. Assembled with little fanfare in an out-of-the-way part of the Province, it was built both on time and on budget. A beautiful, functional vessel, accentuating the scenic beauty of a beautiful area. A fitting example of the great truth the BC Liberals seem to want to forget. "What BC makes, makes BC!"

Yes, votemike, the Liberals HAVE to go. But the NDP isn't the alternative. With someone like Corky Evans at its helm it might have been. But that won't happen. Under the NDP we might keep our Assets, but the growth of our Liabilities will preclude OUR ever using them.

You can say what you like, Socred-ible, it's up to me whose propaganda I believe or if I don't believe any propaganda, including yours.

Facts are facts: According to BC Ferries at this time, this was 40 percent lower than the lowest Canadian shipyard's bid. There were 14 bids for construction in total, three from within Canada, and the remainder from elsewhere.

Do an official freedom of information request and get all the information from the government to verify the facts. It's not too late!

BTW, I watched the Governor of Washington State today talking about the state ferries dilemma in that state.

Google it and get informed. Fortunately in B.C. we are now in good shape as far as the B.C. ferry fleet is concerned.

Get used to it, or maybe not.

The dilemma in Washington State isn't over WHERE any future boats will be built.

Their government took over the ferries from the previous private owner-operator years ago, when that owner-operator wanted a fare increase the public and the State considered unacceptable. One needed to cover steadily rising costs, and replace an aging fleet.

Now the State's in the same situation, only the public is as, or more, reluctant to bear any increase now as it was way back when.

These kind of things just go on and on. No one ever questions, "Why"? If we do, of ANY politician, all we get is obfuscation. Not an answer. So we don't ask, let alone demand, an answer.

Whether the boats, or any other Assets used in the delivery of any other service to the general public are 'privately' owned or 'publicly' owned, the general public is still being asked to pay something it more and more can't afford.

Even if efforts are made to run the service purely "at cost", the "cost" is rising faster than an ever increasing number of people have sufficient "incomes" to meet without going short elsewhere. Or everywhere.

You can argue that it's "cheaper" to build ferries in Germany. Likely it would be "cheaper" again to build them in China.

But wherever they're built outside the country, there's really NO overall 'saving'. It is FALSE economy. But that's not the worst of it.

The worst of it is that even WITH the so-called 'saving' in capital costs, and even WITH that somehow leading, (as it has NOT, in the case of the German-built BC ferries) to a 'saving' in actual operating costs, the 'money' to pay both is ever more deficient in the hands of the public TO pay them.

Inflation is doing as it will always do. Advancing prices faster than it ever does incomes. And Taxation pulls the latter down further while the former continues to advance, until what 'could' be done 'physically', still ~ but no longer 'financially' ~ CAN'T BE DONE EITHER WAY. For the 'means' will have disappeared. Socialism, or whatever variant of that most of the NDP still clings to, is NOT the answer. Nor is the mean-spirited alternate fallaciouness of the BC Liberals brand of 'internationalism'. We're going round in circles with both, and those circles are like the whirlpool that forms when water goes down the drain.