As a curler myself i can feel the pain, but, holy what's gonna happen when the golf course moves!? If the costs now outweigh the income perhaps the curlers need to step up to the plate a little? That said, I know the cost of curling in PG is already REALLY high and if the cost goes up too much.... well let's just say one of Canada's great sports will probably be dead in PG. And that would be a shame. After all curling ain't no casino for revenue. And we all know how much city council likes revenue.

"We're looking for, at this point, any ideas out of city staff and certainly city staff deal with all their recreational facilities, so perhaps, there's efficiencies and ideas that they have in running their facilities that can help us"

Perhaps the PGGCC should look at their entire operations (golf course, restaurant and curling club) and figure out a way to make a go of it. They did it for decades and decades up until recently, so obviously something has gone amiss. I've heard there are loads of smart business people who are members out there so I'm sure they can put their collective heads together and come up with a suitable plan without requiring assistance from the "can't manage a thing" public sector workers.

There is more to this story than meets the eye.

Firstly when and if the Golf Course actually moves to a new course off of Foothills, the Curling Rink will be left behind. Its pretty obvious that the Curling Rink can not stand alone and keep this facility going. The Curlers have a vote on whether or not the PG Course can be sold, and I understand that unless there was some gaurantee that the Curling facilities would be protected, they would not support the sale.

We all know that the PGG&CC is broke., Their membership has been reduced from a high of 800 members and a waiting list, to approx 450 members. The average age of members is 65, and there is little if any new members joining. In addition they have a lot more competition now than they had years ago. 1. Aspen Grove 2. Aberdeen Glen 3.Alder Hills 4. Pine Valley 5. Yellowhead. 6. Molly Hills 7. Ness Woods.

So even if they move to a new location, there is no gaurantee that they will be a viable operation.

In any event rumour has it, that if the Golf Course moves, then the City will take over the Curling Rink, and Buildings, and run it as a community centre. This will allow the Curlers to stay where they are for the short term, and in the long term the City would build a new curling facility somewhere in the vacinity of Kin 1 and 2.

So if the rumours are true, then this meeting before Council is to start the ball rolling on the **plan**. Those in the know, already know what the plan will be, and those who will pay for the **plan** will get little pieces of information over time. Much the same as the PAC, which has a *Plan* supported by the PAC Society and IPG, and the City. The plan for the PAC has been around for a long time. We are just going through the process, to give the impression that we actually have some input into it, when in fact it is already a done deal.

If the Golf Club doesnt move, because they cant sell the land, they will still continue to lose big dollars, and then the **plan** would be to get the City to pick up the tab for the Curling Club costs.

In any event I suspect that no matter what happens we will be on the hook for more money.

Have a nice day.

PS. If the 388 registered curlers who are not members of the PGGCC joined the club, it would go a long way to solving their revenue problems.

Also if the members of PGGCC spent more money in the restaurant that would be a big help also.

Seems like the older people get the harder it is to get them to spend some money.

I have an idea. How about the city takes back the land and sells it to someone who can manage it within their budget. Maybe even try some fund raising.
I have no sympathy for a golf club that boots solber, paid up tournament players off the course who have a tear in the rear pocket (1 cm long)of a brand new pair of jeans. That was done before we even registered at the desk. You have a real ***hole in the club house and consequently my son and I have sworn never to darken your doorstep, even if green fees were waived. You lost 4 memberships for that little fiasco.

Supertech. I have heard a number of such stories over the years. That sort of attitude went a long way towards ensuring that they never got any new members.

You reap what you sow.

Now that they are going broke, they have had a change in attitude, and are not as snooty as they used to be.

I understand the the Pro is no longer there. He will be going to Kelowna, and all the carts have been sold. Apparently they will lease carts in the future, rather than have them as part of the Pro's income.

They will hiring a new Pro, so maybe things will start to change. Who knows.

Sorry, just can not feel sorry for the board of directors of the PGGCC. They shot themselves in the foot when they decided to move. They convince the memebers it would cost 12 million dollars to replant the trees. Well, I doubt it would be a million dollars.

How many millions are they in the hole now, three million dollars. Sorry, you can build a new golf course and your still done for with in three years of opening.

The PGGCC has only itself to blame for its problems. Was the land not donated to the Club to begin with along with the cozy tax exemption?
The lounge/restaurant which I suppose used to be an impressive venue to wine and dine business clients is an antiquated joke. The decor definitely needs refreshing, the food needs inspiration, the service needs at least one more gear. Two and three hour lunches are no longer viable. The floor staff are friendly enough but could use more training in fast efficient service. I am not sure why food takes so long to arrive but management might want to re-think the cocktail/wait-time ratio. The world has moved on from there.
I believe the PGGCC could make itself a prosperous venture if they chose to put out the effort to do so. I also believe they choose not to and will be asking for a large chunk of funding for improvements in time for the hosting of the Winter Games. I guess all things do come to he who waits.

Great timing with 2015 moving closer, eh?

Maybe with the new interest with pond hockey and outdoor NHL games in large outdoor stadiums it is time to bring something new and different to the PG version of the Canada Winter Games, a renaissance of the original form of curling - outdoors.

PG hosted the Scotties Tournament of Hearts in 1983 and again in 2000. (BTW, Kamloops has never hosted that event, only Vancouver, Victoria, Kelowna, and PG and we were the only ones who have hosted it twice.)

I am not a curler, so maybe someone else can let us know what part the Curling Club facilities played on those championships in addition to skating rinks in town.

Here is the promo on the Scotties Tournament of Hearts site about the supposed popularity of curling in Canada.

"Curling is one of the largest amateur sports in Canada with over one million active curlers. The total television reach for Scotties Tournament of Hearts final game is over three million Canadians. Over eleven million adult Canadians will watch curling on television this winter. This is better than one in three of all Canadians."

Projecting the reported one million active curlers in Canada to PG in the same proportion as the population of greater PG is to the Canadian population (85,000 of 34 million) we should have 2,500 active curlers.

I think I am starting to see where the problem might actually be. Either the 1 million active curlers is an exaggeration or we are just not a curling town, even though we have managed to host a national tournament twice. Maybe a promotional campaing is required. Move all the pond curlers back indoors.

This is NOT a City problem. This is a problem that belongs to the PGGCC!!

"Seems like the older people get the harder it is to get them to spend some money."

I just spent a week in downtown Kelowna. The proportion of "older folks" of the general population is larger there than here. There was nothing special going on in town during the week. An International Childrens Games event had concluded and moved out of the community. Bernard Street looked like restaurant row to me compared to PG. Most were full or close to full around supper time, almost like Vancouver. There was an outdoor skating rink along the marina which had skaters on it every single day and night while I was there, unlike our ice surface at the Civic Plaza. Curbside parking downtown was at a premium in the evening, unlike our downtown where there are a few cars around North 54 and further down 3rd at the Generator, GALA and Nancy O's.

I have believed for some time that people in PG are cacooning. 30 years ago this was a much more active town. In many ways, PG has become a community of introverts. As a result, activating a downtown, a curling club, a lawn bowling facility, river trails, etc. presents some special challenges that go beyond simply providing or improving facilities.

The PGGCC has made it's own mess. Now they get to clean it up. There are lots of ice rinks (including the roller dome) that can be converted to curling for the 2015 Winter Games if needed.

Palopu - You seem to be reading an awful lot into things. Your imagination has run wild with conspiracy theories.

The article clearly states that there was no motion from council. No motion from council means no direction to staff which means no 'secret' negotiations with the Golf and Curling Club.

We used to go to the restaurant after our curling games specifically to support the club. However, after multiple occasions where we have caught flak from restaurant staff about having our curling gear on the floor against the wall beside our table, having to wait incredible amounts of time for food and drinks and them not having the ingredients to make half the stuff on their menu, we now go somewhere else after the games.
Perhaps a good first step in making the PGGCC sustainable would be to not chase away customers who want to be there and give them money.

The PGGCC has gone off the rocker!! 12 million to plant trees? NO! For a company that is completely broke sitting on land valued at 10 million how do they suppose they are going to build a 20 million dollar golf course on pidherny? If they have 10 million sitting around why not just plant some trees, do some upgrades and keep some of their membership that their central location keeps them. If they move off of foothills Aberdeen is going to eat them up! As for the curling how about we ease up on the performing arts building and build a new curling rink!! If we have a city ran curling association with a junior program, even with 388 people at $400 per person thats surely more revenue then the arts can even imagine to produce.

We used to go to the restaurant after our curling games specifically to support the club. However, after multiple occasions where we have caught flak from restaurant staff about having our curling gear on the floor against the wall beside our table, having to wait incredible amounts of time for food and drinks and them not having the ingredients to make half the stuff on their menu, we now go somewhere else after the games.
Perhaps a good first step in making the PGGCC sustainable would be to not chase away customers who want to be there and give them money.

That golf course lost my support years ago when they made it so difficult for any non members to play there. Could not get tee time on weekends(members only). Could not get tee ime on ladies day. Could not get tee time on mens day. Could not get tee time between 0700 - 1100 hours(prime Time).Could get tee time after 1100 Hrs but only if one was a member.The list goes on. Now they are in finicial despair and will take almost anyone as long as you don't wear jeans.They will wait a long time before I return to the OLD BOYS club.As far as the curling club is concerned I don't see why tax dollars should go there for their entertainment.

And there you have it folks, some real reasons why the PGGCC is in a mess. Perhaps the Board of Directors should take note . . .

na never will,heads to far up thier backsides

One should keep in mind that the City wants the Golf Course lands to be developed. This development includes the demolition of the Playhouse Theatre,even though it was recently renovated for a few millions.

In order to get the Golf Course to sell and move, they have to do something to satisfy the Curlers.

So the rumour is that they will create the Pinewood Recreation Community Centre, which will include the curling facilities, and perhaps the Pine Valley Golf Course which is already owned by the City, plus the Driving Range. This would allow the Curlers to stay where they are for the short term (4/5 Years) and then they would move to a new facility somewhere around Kin 1/2, and the balance of the Golf Course lands would be developed.

This is not a conspiracy. In fact if you keep in mind that all the property along Highway 16 from the Tennis Courts to Cosco, was given to the City from the Federal Government back in the 1940's to be used for recreational purposes in perpetuity, and the fact that this land is now all commercial, it is pretty obvious what has taken place.

Do you really think that they would stop this commercial development because of the Golf Course. I think that the whole reason for moving was to allow the land to be developed.

Time will tell, however we know that the City had full intentions of putting a car dealership mall where the Playhouse presenlty stands, and if the Dealers hadnt backed away it would be there now.

This whole fiasco is about developing the property, and has little if anything to do with the Golf Course. If they move to the Pidherny area, I suspect that they will take their finiancial problems with them.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the PGGCC is a semi private society, and therefore comes under the BC Societys Act. Part of this act states that if a society goes bankrupt that all its assets are taken over by the Province. I think that we probably all agree that the PGGCC is very close to being bankrupt, and they therefore have to do something to remain viable. Selling out for $15 Million and moving may give them a few more years.

Anyway thats my take on it for whatever thats worth.

Have a nice day.

Pal and his conspiracy theories also crack me up...too funny!