Tickets for Trailers in Parking Lots

Monday, April 24, 2006 09:23 PM

RV's parked in parking lot last summer ( opinion250.com file photo)

City Hall is preparing for another season of complaints about travel trailers being parked overnight in spots that aren’t zoned for such use.

The detailed report from Development Services Dan Milburn, outlined how landowners and property users have been advised the parking lots are not zoned for overnight visitors. Milburn says most have been cooperative, posting the proper signage, advising visitors an overnight stay would violate a bylaw.

Millburn advised Council that last year, following written complaints, staff investigated and “Notice and Order “ letters were issued to property owners advising them that failure to comply might result in legal action.

Milburn says there is still more that can be done. By revising the Ticket Information Utilization Bylaw, Bylaw Services would be allowed to issue Tickets to landowners/operators who fail to comply with the zoning bylaws as they pertain to travel trailer park use. This ammendment would be the first step in setting up a ticket system, not unlike the one used for regular parking infractions. The new ticket would have a fine attached so the property owner would have the option to pay the fine or go to court to fight the ticket.

Acting City Manager Rob Whitwham says the bylaw services officers would have to witness the infraction before a ticket could be issued. Councilor Bassermann asked how can a ticket be written to a land owner when they've gone home, and a travel trailer pulls in at midnight? "The landowner didn't have the opportunity to try and prevent the infraction." He wondered aloud if we are doing our tourist services a disfavour by taking this kind of action. He says he woud support it but "I can predict we will be dealing with this again."

Councilor Brian Skakun says with the higher Canadian dollar, we likely won't have as many American travellers or tourists and this could hurt our tourism efforts.

Councilor Don Zurowski says " I for one don't want to be militant with this, but this is a tool so this issue is not between the tourist and bylaw services, but between the property owner and bylaw services. We have land use policy and we are either committed to it or we are not. I need to support the reccommendation."

Mayor Kinsley says "While many wonder what kind of message does this send to tourists, but we either have zoning bylaws or we don't. What's going to happen" says Kinsley "is that these people are not going to go to a campground, they are going to go somewhere else, but that's o.k., we will have the integrity of our bylaw."

Milburn says it’s important to have the process for handling complaints in place as we head into another vacationing season.

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Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 09:23 PM in News by 250 News

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Comments

Posted by: jus cuz i can on April 24 2006 11:32 PM

Holy Cow, what a load of crap! Can't city council leave this one alone! Yes, the tourists will go somewhere else that appreciates them and welcomes their business. Tourists have already been telling their friends and travelling colleages that PG is not "tourist friendly"! City council had better rethink this one and leave the tourists alone. This overnight parking happens all over the country, why does PG have to be different. It is no wonder that this town has the poor reputation that is does.

Posted by: camoose on April 25 2006 12:08 AM

So it's the silly season again? Walmart encourages people to use their lots for overnighting in other communities. These people will not go to a campground if they can't park in lots, they will just motor on through PG. Word will travel fast amoung the RV groups. If Don Zuroski is so concerned about land use policies, why doesn't he jump on Mr. Major's logging truck parking lot at the jct of 16 & 97 by the casino? Is this land zoned as a truck parking lot? Looks great for visiters entering PG. Real bush leaque, methinks.

Posted by: owl on April 25 2006 1:05 AM

"the property owner would have the option to pay the fine or go to court to fight the ticket"

I think that a test case can be made by a good lawyer and he/she will win it hands down. The City can then take it to the Supreme Court of Canada and lose there for the second or third time. All that with our dollars.

The parking lot is there to park vehicles. There are no restrictions as to hours or restrictions which prevent motor homes from parking at any time of the day.

Zoning bylaws are made in order to ensure public safety and provide predictability and direction in the development of a city. Zoning bylaws are not made to protect businesses from the operations of other businesses. Let us face it that is the reason why WalMart and others have been told that these vehicles cannot park there. There is absolutely nothing in the zoning of the WalMart property which does not allow these vehicles to park there, nor that parking length is limited, or that overnight parking is not allowed.

Times change, technology changes. These vehicles are self contained and can empty their effluent at any sanidump on their route. This is not a public safety or public health matter. In fact, this is becoming a standard operating procedure for WalMArt and they should be allowed under their zoning to carry on their business in this fashion. The public seems to like this as an option. We used to have corner stores. They have gone the way of the dodo bird. Pharmacies used to be stand alone businesses, now they are part of general stores. London Drugs has more space for computers, electronics, household goods, patio furniture and even some dry goods than they do for “drugs”. It is time that RV are allowed to be parked in parking lots by businesses that feel such practice may be an asset.

I think WalMart should simply ask for a zoning “clarification” which would clearly identify that large stores, with appropriately sized parking lots, be allowed to have RV park for no longer than 24 hours.

On another note about the same matter - while gas will cost more and there will likely be a reduction in the number of RV's coming this way, it is also likely that those who do come will be looking to save wherever possible. Parking at WalMart type stores may become more popular rather than less popular.

Posted by: Gofaster on April 25 2006 7:56 AM

I don't think there is much worry about anything happening here. The bylaws do not seem to be able to or desire to enforce the bylaws we have now. I took in proof of parking in a loading zone on a regular basis by an individual and they said that there was nothing they could do. Come one a bylaw is a bylaw, eforce it or get rid of it. Better yet get rid of those who are to cowardly to do something about it.

Posted by: lunarcom on April 25 2006 7:57 AM

Just who exactely is doing all the complaining ? Last time I checked only one of the local RV park places is actually within city limits. The rest are outside of it. Why should their needs influence how we service our tourists ?

Posted by: diplomat on April 25 2006 1:18 PM

What is missing from the whole story is a full report as to how other cities in B.C. handle this situation.

Is everyone as unfriendly as P.G. to travellers who may be accustomed to parking their rigs this way without having to face eviction from a parking lot?

Some of these motorhomes are so self-contained that they don't need any hookups for several days in a row.

Perhaps the RV Park owners can offer them free parking (when not hooking up to anything) as a goodwill gesture in the expectation that this will lead to an overall increase in business once word gets around how friendly and considerate they really are.

There are far too many issues (potholes, lack of lines painted on streets and crosswalks, air quality, etc etc) that city council ought to deal with rather than forever re-visiting this.

Posted by: John on April 25 2006 5:18 PM

Hi folks. I guess I'm one of those RV tourists you're talking about. I hate to say it, but the comments about us (at least me) passing right on through and spending our funds elsewhere is very accurate. When we are going from A to B and just want to spend a night, a parking lot is just fine. We leave no mess, want no services, but usually spend a few bucks in the local stores. If the place looks interesting, we will consider spending a few days, and will get a campsite at a public or private park and really take in the local amenities.

If folks enforce these counter productive ordinances, the reputation as an RV unfriendly place will rapidly get around, and I , for one, won't stop for an overnight or longer stay. Word gets around fast. Sorry, but there's too many places that appreciate our business.

By the way, I just got back from a 9500 mi snowbird trip to the southwest, and will be through your town the week of May 22. We'll be back through in September.

We travel and spend.
John

Posted by: Percy on April 25 2006 8:02 PM

To heck with the bylaws.

Why are we so bent on upholding bylaws that no longer serve our needs or the needs of local businesses?

I would expect that every business with a parking lot would be excited to see a fleet of motorhomes parked outside waiting for their doors to open each morning, rather than a lot of frustrated, ticked off travelers who are being forced to keep on trucking or be forced to stay at a campground that they don't want or need.

Let's use a little common sense and figure out a way to cater to our guests, our visitors, our tourists.

Aren't these the people our Mayor is traveling all around the world to attract to our fair city?

If we don't make an attempt to treat them better, they will not stay. And I can't blame them. I would also press on to another community if I was made to feel unwelcome. Percy

Posted by: owl on April 25 2006 8:31 PM

John is bang on!

Boondocking

From an RV Forum about boondocking: “Boondocking is really not a problem anywhere in Canada, expect the the infamous Province of Nova Scotia, Prince George, British Columbia, and Kenora, Ontario. Other than that, the entire country is wide open for boondockers.”

http://escapees.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/730605661/m/8331036761/r/5671021871

Notice this list shows BC and only four towns- PG is down as Exhibition Grounds – if this refers to the City grounds prior to the building of the pool, it is very old information. Wonder if some are parking on the grounds somewhere else where they are not visible?

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/waters/deanslist.htm

This is an interesting one. A site to promote paid accommodations but they list the Walmart locations for “convenience” knowing that people will use both types of facilities.

http://www.allstays.com/c/wal-mart-locations.htm

Here is one of many boondocking sites. Just put the word into Google and enjoy.

http://www.angelfire.com/oh/Boondocking/index.html

;-)

Posted by: Palopu on April 25 2006 9:28 PM

On any given evening, and on any week-end, you can observe people walking their dogs through school yards and allowing their dogs to do their thing. If you observe closly you will notice that very few if any pick up after their dogs. Sidewalks along side of schools are littered with dog droppings. **Now** hows the integrity of the dog bylaws Colin.

City bylaw officers are driving around our fair City with brand new pick-up trucks, enjoying the sunshine, and the days work, however they seem not able to catch any of these offenders, or do they chose not to. The City is quick to state that bylaws are complaint driven, however in the case of dog ---- on school property I would suggest that they should take the iniative. **Fat Chance**

Posted by: ontwin on April 25 2006 9:35 PM

If your going to enforce this bylaw..you'd better be ready to enforce them all.Where shall we start?? Illegal or unauthorized suites often advertised as such in the Real Estate papers and probably every rental in the VLA area . Are these not taking money out of the pockets of tax paying landlords?when they could be renting real apartments?
Fences bylaw#3302 to be kept in reasonable condition and repair..drive down Foothills and see the rickety fire hazards people call a fence!Untidy premises another city bylaw.Everyone has at least one house on their block that has unsightly yards,non working vehicles parked in a driveway or adjacent lawn! How about displaying vehicles at the CN centre parking lot "For Sale"that contraindicates a city bylaw too!!Just remember city council, you started it!

Posted by: owl on April 25 2006 11:25 PM

"How about displaying vehicles at the CN centre parking lot "For Sale" that contraindicates a city bylaw too!!"

That is one I am really ticked off about as well. They are also at 5th and Foothills quite often as well as a few other locations. They need to be towed away.

Posted by: diplomat on April 26 2006 7:27 AM

Owl:>"From an RV Forum about boondocking: “Boondocking is really not a problem anywhere in Canada, except the infamous Province of Nova Scotia, Prince George, British Columbia, and Kenora, Ontario. Other than that, the entire country is wide open for boondockers.” <

Thank you Owl, for the research and the links you posted. Just as I suspected - P.G. is infamous for something again.

As for enforcement of bylaws that DO make sense: Dogs that bark 18 hours a day/night 365 days a year and people who burn wood in their fireplaces when air advisories are in effect have nothing to worry about.

Is there a bylaw that sets minimum standards for potholed and cracked streets and roads?

If there is, obviously it is being totally ignored as well.

Yesterday I noticed many potholes that are so deep that an unsuspecting driver can easily bend a wheel or have an accident.

Can city council be motivated to deal with a mundane issue like that?

No. Definitely not. The past record speaks for itself.

Posted by: diplomat on April 27 2006 9:46 AM

The Mayor and all the councilors (except for one) seem to be forgetting that they are citizens of Prince George, first of all.

Then, they should remember that they were elected by those very same citizens to do a proper job.

Thirdly, one day they will revert back to being just citizens again - are they looking forward to living in a community that acquired a hicktown reputation thanks to their narrow minded decisions?

Posted by: snappi on April 27 2006 4:48 PM

First of all, have a wonderful trip John, and I hope our city officials have this ridiculous issue fixed before you come through our fair city. I just can't believe this is happening. For starters where are there enough camping areas in this city to accomodate all these RV's even if they wanted to camp? There aren't any. The only ones close to town are full of people that are employed here and live elsewhere. So if these people don't stay in a parking lot they will have to go right through just to find a place to stay, which means no money being spent in Prince George. As an RVer myself I don't get it. Where is the harm? What are they thinking?