No Pain, No Gain in Softwood Deal: One Man's Opinion

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 03:45 AM

What really have we to lose in Canada if we tell the US to stuff the proposed lumber agreement?

According to reports we are being told the Bush Administration has been allowing the US lumber producers to call the shots in the matter and why in the world would they want to settle?

They had sought to get one half of the countervailing duty money paid into their pockets, that, along with an increased cost for the lumber hitting the USA because of the tariffs means more money in their pockets.

Why in the world would you ever want to change that?

A failure to reach an agreement in the soft wood lumber dispute is the best win that the US producers could hope for. The lonely losers are the American people who must buy the product at inflated prices.

Want to build or repair a home in the US?

Simply add on another 10% for duties that bear no relationship to what is going on. Import the wood from Scandinavia or Russia and there is no duty, which enables the many US producers who are taking part in the practice to sell the cheap wood at higher prices. In fact the, US is shifting its main trading partner to the side in favor of its former foe.

The players however are major. Former US President Jimmy Carter represents southern American interests and the people who are the biggest importers of Russian lumber. George Bush has been a major benefactor of funds flowing to his election coffer.

What are Canadians to do?

Well the argument is that the US is our biggest trading partner, it is however important to say what is being traded.

Hydro electric power, natural gas, oil and other commodities that the US is in dire need of top the list.

Canadians pay a premium for natural gas in a cold climate not because we don’t have plenty of natural gas but rather because we are tied into the US system under free trade.

Free trade is just that and the lumber producers of the US have long ago taken out the phrase, “level playing field’

I’m Meisner and that is one man’s opinion.

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Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 03:45 AM in Views by Ben Meisner

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Comments

Posted by: Marty on June 21 2006 8:04 AM

I would like nothing more than to cut off the water, power, gas, and wood going to the US....sell it to ANYONE else.

Its about time GWB and the other losers learned we are tired of their crap.

Posted by: owl on June 21 2006 9:16 AM

I do not often get feisty, but I would have to agree with you Marty coming as a gut reaction. They imposed illegal sanctions, thus we can do it as well.

The only thing which stops me is I do not really know how it would affect a whole range of other arrangements which have been developed over time which are more beneficial to us.

Posted by: diplomat on June 21 2006 10:35 AM

Cutting off the water, power,gas and wood is illegal under the terms of the NAFTA Agreement. It is easy to get a copy of it from the Internet, but it is hard to spend the time to read all the pages, over a thousand of them.

In other words, they could sue our pants off.

"When Irish eyes are smiling..."
- remember?

Not only that, the softwood thing has some special exemptions from NAFTA and our crafty southern neighbours knew what they were doing when they decided to put the thumbscrews on us.

Posted by: Chadermando on June 21 2006 11:22 AM

If an export tax is justifiable under NAFTA for softwood lumber than why not for oil and gas exports?

Its simple IMO, we pay the same price as Americans for oil and gas, its just they pay an export tax on top of that for the cost of litigation of other outstanding trade issues that are not being honored by the Americans under NAFTA.

Obviously the end price in America for oil and gas would be their market price, which would mean the Canadian oil and gas would have to be priced less in order for it to be a market price after the export tax for the Americans.

Chapter 11 is the stumbling block, so if all else fails serve the required 6 months notice to the Americans that we plan to abandon NAFTA unless Chapter 11 is removed or ammended to reflect the realities of the agreement 15 years later.

Posted by: Chadermando on June 21 2006 11:27 AM

We are in the drivers seat here in Canada, and its about time we started acting like it.

The Americans fear and would like to blunt our ability to tax commodities destine for their markets, unless of course its in an industry like softwood lumber.

Time to show them that it is not the Saudi kings arse they should be kissing, but rather their Northern neighbor and enabler.

Posted by: Marty on June 21 2006 5:01 PM

diplomat,

if they sue us, we can just ignore the world courts ruling and tell them to shove any judgement they get.
That is what they did to us.

They just ignored and never paid, so we should just do the same.

Posted by: Marty on June 21 2006 6:41 PM

Posted by: Palopu on June 21 2006 8:32 PM

I cant beleive the **babble** that sometimes takes place on this site. We as Canadians at this point in time have little or no way of bringing the Americans to heel. Firstly they own approx 80% on all industry in Canada. This includes, Natural Gas, Oil, Lumber Co.,s Pulp and Paper Co.,s Sulphur mines, Potash Mines, Fertilizer Plants, The President of the so called Canadian National Railways is a fellow by the name of Hunter Harrison, who's office is in Chicago Illinois. He is an American. Through the stock holders, (Insurance Companys) etc the American control CN Rail. the list goes on. They own us lock, stock, and barrel, and the reason they do, is because we sold everything we own to them.

Sears and Roebuck recently took control of Sears Canada. An American financiar by the name of Gerry Zucker took over the Hudson Bay Co. (Hostile takeover) which was the oldest Canadian Co. in Canada. The list goes on.

Years ago when there was a border dispute between Canada and the USA when negotiations failed the Americans said **This is where the border will be, if you dont like it then fight for it** Thats where the expression from President Roosevelt I beleive came from **Walk softly but carry a big stick**

You people have to wake up a smell the roses. This Country has to be rebuilt from the bottom up, however it will never happen as long as we continue to sell our heritage to the USA.

All of you who supported the Terasen Gas deal, (Terasen is now owned by American Co., Kinder Morgan) stand up and take a bow.

You have all been **Wal Marted** so get used to it.

Posted by: acrider54 on June 22 2006 6:07 AM

Palopu speaks the truth!

Posted by: diplomat on June 22 2006 7:06 AM

John Manly (former Liberal big-wig politician and potential successor to Paul Martin) is heading Canada's delegation in the semi-secret international talks to eliminate the borders between Canada, the USA and Mexico.

The three countries are represented by hundreds of ex-politicians (like Mulroney) and CEOs of the largest Canadian, American and Mexican corporations. Most representatives are on the boards of directors of dozens of corporations simultaneously.

Once all the conditions are agreed on, the legislation will be passed into law by the politicians in each country and the people will NOT get to vote on it, the same way NAFTA was foisted upon us.

There will be a common currency, free movement of people across open borders, much like it is done in the European Union countries.

The Bush administration is not as dumb as it looks, because the reason it has allowed 20 million illegal aliens to cross its southern border in order to supply cheap labour is that under the future unified North American Union they would come and go freely anyways.

No use to spend 20 billion on a physical border when any day now it will be totally redundant.

There will be huge water pipelines running from here all the way down to the dry areas of Mexico to supply the cities and farms with the water they lack now.

The Canadian goose is indeed already cooked.

By the way, re: WalMart. In Germany several WalMart stores are being closed for lack of customers! There are 85 altogether but overall they have lost money since opening day!

Posted by: trusted on June 22 2006 10:56 AM

Must pain them that everything they want they are in a position to take, but the one drawback is the stupid Canadians get thrown in so the bargain carries a bit of a load!!!!!!
Oh well, hardly a major problem, as we are in total not even a drop in the bucket population wise if even compared to California, and I mean "all of Canada."
If they took us now , what a deal!!! They would have to give us $1.00 for $1.00. And an open border??? Whoopee-no more line ups-and look at the price of gas!!!
So the Canadian Goose is already cooked--so who cares.
Beats getting bitter over all these sell outs-just prolongs the agony of wondering when the actual axe will fall.
If we had been proud Canadians our governments would not have been allowed to sell us out.
Oh, for goodness sake, there I go-being negative again and on the verge of compaining.
Well---excuse me.

Posted by: diplomat on June 22 2006 4:09 PM

Infamous Ann Coulter of the likewise infamous Fox Channel said recently words to the effect that " Canadians should consider themselves lucky that we Americans allow them to live on this continent" and that "we should invade them and get it over with."

I know that she doesn't speak for a majority of Americans, but the fact that a lot of people applauded her and far too few critizised her makes one wonder what the mindset of the average American really is!

Tucker Carlson considers Canadians to be the "retarded poor cousin of us Americans."

Even after amalgamation we will more than likely always be hanging on to the dirty end of the stick!

Relax. Trudeau said that one has to be always awake and on guard when sleeping with an elephant - he wasn't kidding when he said that.

Posted by: Palopu on June 23 2006 9:13 PM

Trudeau had a meeting with President Nixon and some of his White House Staff. After Trudeau left Nixon said.

*What did that SOB say, did anyone understand a word that, that SOB said.*

There is no doubt our choice of Prime Ministers over the years have confused the Americans. They have had little or no respect for any of them in the last 40 years or so.