This was predicted as the likely result of cuts to the social safet net. Poverty leads to addictions that lead to crime. We were talking about this developement over four years ago. The Liberals also knew this yet they went ahead anyways. They hold a great deal of the responsibility for these issues. Sorry if this sounds familiar to some who post here but history will show you that the predictions of those who know reality pegged this crime almost to the month.Ignorance is different than stupidity. Ignorance can be cured by education . Stupidity can not.

Oh please. Let's blame the government for some low-life who steals a truck, and not the low-life. What about personal responsibility?

Costs keep going up...Wages seem to be going down...Beat up on the Unions, Jobs keep going away....Company's want more and more profit....
I'm not going to explain the ending....As You that don't know...should apply for a politician job....You will fit in quite nicely.....
Not all of these people are low life's...Some are just normal people forced to find a way to survive. Sure glad I'm retired....

Why in the dirty 30s, when every one was poor,there were NO SOCIAL NETS, did the whole country NOT become thiefs? It was Realist, because People had Pride,Honour and did not blame every one else for their problems, and did not expect the goverment to help them. AND the courts punished the lowlife that were thiefs, not like the courts today.

A thief is a thief. Dont make excuses for them. They know exactly what they are doing when they do it. There are plenty of jobs around if people want to work, however for some it is much easier to steal. A thief is a thief.

Or, Don, it may have been because communities passed vagrancy laws which made it possible to target no-income people and force them to go somewhere else. The fact that there was nowhere else to go was the poor unfortunate's problem and he just had to suck it up and jump a train. Of course, he would then be beaten up by the train police, but that was his fault for jumping a train to avoid being thrown in prison because he didn't have $5 in his pocket.

Should we use that approach now, Don? Should we make all poor people live in the bush? It would cut down the number of trucks stolen, probably.

Prevention is better than cure. Give people an opportunity to earn a decent income and there will be less crime.

You are trying to blame union woes and company profits as reasoning for this? Baahhhhaaaaa. Thats hilarous.

Personal accountability. Hows that for a novel idea? Obviously our systems are far from perfect, but I guarantee the systems do not FORCE anyone to steal a vehicle.

Gee Longneck, you make it sound so romantic. "These are just people trying to survive." What kind of reality do you live in?

Make no mistake, these people are not stealing loaves of bread. they're stealing trucks to pay for their next hit of crystal meth or whatever.

These are the kinds of people who, if they saw you lying unconscious in the street, would go through your pockets, take your watch and then leave.

I have to agree with Don on this one. For the ones that think the social nets should help everyone, I would like to ask a question. How much do you think a decent wage to start a job should be if you have no skills at all. This is just for an entry level job. $10.00 per hour, $15.00, $20.00? I have advertised for help in the past year for unskilled people starting at $10.00, with benefits and increases in wages after 3 months, and in a week I received maybe 5 applications. If these people are stealing to survive, why did I not get more applications? I realize $10.00 an hour will not buy a house or anything but it will keep the wolf away from the door, and give experience.

Comparisons to the thirites are irrelevnt to this issue. Times have changed. I can understand Don Mackenzie's attitudes as he has reached the age he has lost touch with what is really going on in this world. We live in a world that tells us we are missing out on the good life as compaired to what we see on television. People expect to be treated with respect and be given what they feel they deserve. Is this right? Naturally, no but, that is what our capitalist world has taught us to demand. The reality is we live in a world where individuals no longer control their lives. Corporations, who's primary interest is the accumulation of wealth, are in control of our governments. While you might consider $10/hour a decent wage, when was the last time you tried to live on this wage? It is not enough. Minimum wages have been artificially kept low by corporate interests in government. Combine this with governments who are forced to give away billions of dollars in corporate tax breaks (Corporate welfare), and we are firmly caught in the world of the race to the bottom. Those who cry personal responsibility are those who can not grasp the root causes of our problems. Just like politicians who apply weak bandaid solutions to real problems, those who claim that it is just a lack of personal responsibility are completely unaware of the real causes of these problems. Become educated on real issues and start proposing real solutions. Until then don't waste the time of those who understand and are working towards real solutions.

Realist. Thats a crock? Big words and long sentences to try to blame everyone but the guilty party. To suggest that this stealing is being done by poor people is an insult to the poor people.

You do not have a clue who is doing the stealing, and obviously you do not know why. Do poor people only steal trucks?? What do they do with them??

Thiefs steal and thiefs know what to do with the stolen goods. Its that simple. The jails are full of thiefs.

Most poor people have higher morale values than some of those on the other end.

You may have noticed the rich, and once well respected Enron CEO Jeff Skillings just got 24 years in jail. He was rich and he was a thief.

There are a lot more examples of rich thiefs, however you get the point.

Sigh... these people are stealing to pay for their drug habits. Ask yourself why they became addicted in the first place and then maybe you can grasp the complexitites of this issue.

REALIST...

Actually you can live on $10/hr. You can't drive a nice car, you can't own a house, but you can certainly live and still have a bit of money left over for a social life.

$10/hr full time would get you a decent basement suite, a transit pass, 3 solid meals per day, along with covering many other basic needs. It is by no means a good wage, but I know many many people that make it work for that or less. For example check out the retail sector.

Your argument becomes flawed when you make untrue statements.

You forget that part of the Canadian dream is having a family. $10/hour is not enough to live upon. Perhaps if you are single you might eek out an existance but do you really think that in the era of corporations reporting ludicris profits it should be neccessary for the majority of Canadians to have to live on miserable wages? Especially when the goal of society is to have a family and thus contribute to the survival of society? Neo-conservative ideologies are driving the increased wealth of the rich and creating increased poverty in the vast majority of society. The middle class is disapearing. If this seems to make sense to you I hope you are in the top 1% of wealth or else you too will soon see a very graphic display of this reality just as the employees of Extra Foods have suddenly realized.

I can not believe that anyone could suggest that being poor results in drug addiction. There are many cases when wealthy become addicted to drugs and end up in the poor house. Addictive personalities come from all walks of life,the rich,the poor,all races inclusive. In addition,Mr.Realist suggests we are missing out on the 'good life'compared to what is on television,last I checked we do not have war in our backyards and a vast majority have shelter and food. While living here is not perfect, I'll take living in Canada anyday!

Realist. You dont know that they are stealing trucks to pay for a drug habit. You are guessing. Maybe they are joy riding, or a combination of both.

Years ago the Unions in this Country got good wages, and working condititions for working people. It is the working people of to-day, with the flawed high grade education, and minimal knowlege upbringing that is allowing all these benefits and wages to be taken away.

Look at all the people who shop at the Canadian Super Store even though those people were locked out by Extra Foods because they wouldnt allow the Company to take away their benefits and reduce their hours. I can tell you that there are a lot of so called Union members in this town that are shopping at Super Store, and that includes the so-called hard done by Teachers, and Government Workers, BC Tel etc; The very same people who will whine for your support when they go on strike. If you think these people give a s---, you are sadly mistaken.

Further more I wouldnt be suprised if you shop at the Super Store.

The decline in wages and benefits is caused as much by ineffective Union members as it is by Corporations. You reap what you sow.

Understanding the root causes of social problems is not the same as saying that people who break the law have no personal responsibility when they do so. Of course lawbreakers in all stratas of society must face the consequences of their actions, and be punished by a judge in a court when found guilty. I suspect that very few people would disagree with that.

That is merely a distractor from the real issue, which is how to provide for the legitimate aspirations of all members of society to benefit from the wealth we all collectively own. This province belongs to all of us, not just the wealthy, and all the owners are entitled to a return on their property.

$10/hour = $1600/month = $20,800/year, which is below the poverty line for a couple in 2001 in a city the size of PG ($22,139). Add in a couple of children and they are well below the poverty line ($33,046).

http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/fs_lico05_bt.htm

Actually, once again poverty is one of the most predictable precursers to those who find themselves in the grasp of addictions. Further, current scientific research does not provide any support to the idea of "the addictive Personality" theory. True addiction does happen in all walks of life but, poverty is a clear indicator for substantially increased addiction problems. Yes, we currently live in one of the better countries in the world. We are not dying of thirst or hunger but this is a poor excuse for accepting the fact that corporations and the wealthy are actively and successfull eroding our ability to live a good life. Subsribing to the "we are doing O.K." school of thought is the exact mindset that the wealthy count upon to slowly enslave you and me and especially our children.

True we all have a responsibility to society but unfortunatly we do not live in a perfect world and to expect everyone to be socially responsible is as realistic as telling you unfixed dog to not impregnate a female dog when given the opportunity. It just does not work and this is partially why we have a government structure to address this reality.

The 2001 in my last post should read 2005. Sorry.

True we all have a responsibility to society but unfortunatly we do not live in a perfect world and to expect everyone to be socially responsible is as realistic as telling you unfixed dog to not impregnate a female dog when given the opportunity. It just does not work and this is partially why we have a government structure to address this reality.

It is also true that many do shop at the Real Canadian Superstore but when you live with extremely limited income you are forced to shop where things are cheapest and the race to the bottom feeds upon itself. Where this hurts the most is when those who can afford to shop at more responsible stores (Not Wal Mart) still shop where it is the cheapest. The wealthy get wealthier while the poor get poorer and it feeds upon itself. I live on a disability pension of $856/month. because I live in inflicted poverty I have no choice but to shop at Stupidstore as it is the only way I can feed my son. I am trapped in the circle of poverty sucking us all down. If we had real wages (or a survivable income)we would have a choice but,many do not have the luxury of choice.

I dont think anybody has a problem with low income people shopping where they can get the best deals. What I am talking about is high income Union people such as Pulp Mill Workers, Forestry Workers, Government Workers, BC Tel, Teachers, etc who all make $50,000.00 per year and up, and get many if not all of their benefits paid. These people can be seen going into the Multi National Canadian Superstore to shop on a regular basis and have little or no concern about their so-called Union brothers who are standing outside, trying to hang on to the wages and benefits that they were able to negotiate over the years.

Large Multi National companies are picking off these High Paid Union jobs one at at time, and in the end they will all disappear, however it will be because of apathy as much as anything else.

You reap what you sow.

Multi National Canadian Superstore? Hmmmm? What other countries have the Great Canadian Superstore? Tell me.

You are right on the money Palopu. We are doing to ourselves. Never has it been more true that the love of money is the root of all evil and our new god is unfortunately the mighty dollar if people suffer in the quest of the new god so be it.

I think REALIST has some real classic posts this time around. I felt like I was reading something from the works of the great communist and socialists from Russia and Cuba. Identifying the roots of all evil, the need to stop the capitalist pigs, and the running dog capitalist, the national dream, neo-conservative ideologies, the survival of society, history will show, and best of all -
"Ignorance can be cured by education!" It's off to the Gulag, or in China all the teacher were sent off to the farms as labours.

Freedom comes at a cost, the next great leap forward never seems to go away. The difference between socialists and capitalist is the former wants to educate you and the latter says educate your self.

Oh, almost forgot, the guys that are picking up the trucks, just thieves.

It's nice when this guy finally shows up it's a nice contrast to an intelligent conversation and it shows just how shallow the gene pool can be nice to see ya pooldecat. I guess wrestling must be over on t.v.eh? or was it somehting more of a challenge like teletubbies?

Realist...For A person who has no money Why do you have a TV????? If you are low on food, or money as you say, Having a hard time to feed your son. Cancel cable, sell your TV, get rid of your computer, your Internet, , or just quit bitching about people who work and have some money, Phone Jack Layton ask the LEFT WING NUTS to Help you.

Lots of food for thought, I love it!
I must ask, does everyone really think this was a 'bunch of poor people' performing random hits on citizens vehicles? No way. This was a well thought out and planned strike with an equally well thought out and planned location to take these vehicles. Poor people don't own chop shops. Chop shops involve organized crime (of some sort), and a degree of planning. In addition organized crime does not reley on drug addicts, too much of a risk.
No one will ever know who all was involved, unless their all nabbed by the cops, and what are the odds of that happening? (Not because the cops are incompetent, just the sheer volume of thefts).
Again good debate but really - thieves steal, and they need to be held accountable for it. Blaming society is a cop out.
As far as all the personal attacks go, well I'm offended by them and no one has attacked me yet!!!

Agreed. Sadly, this was not a random event.

Just like the cops said, these vehicles will be making their re-appearances at a future date. They will not be broken down for parts or taken on joyrides.

Look for them to be used at a smash-and-grab or as a getaway vehicle for an armed robbery... coming to a small business or convenience store near you!

"Why in the dirty 30s, when every one was poor,there were NO SOCIAL NETS, did the whole country NOT become thiefs"

There was nothing to steal ......

"You do not have a clue who is doing the stealing, and obviously you do not know why. Do poor people only steal trucks?? What do they do with them??"

I would assume that with a rash of trucks gone like that this was a concerted effort by a ring. If so, we are speaking about a business, not a group of people going for joy rides or interested in vandalism.

From New Zealand, a bit of insight:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/location/story.cfm?l_id=149&ObjectID=10387105

"There are many cases when wealthy become addicted to drugs and end up in the poor house"

Just as there are many more where the wealthy do not end up in the poor house and simply keep on taking drugs because they can continue to afford it. There is only so much one can take and spend. Remember, it does not take having to go to work to make money each day if you have investments and/or others working for you. Thus, drugs affecting your performance at work is not a factor. Those individuals can be spaced out 24/7.

There was a report on the news last night of people living in camp grounds in Kelowna because they cannot find an affrodable place to rent. They were paying $20 per night. So that is $600 per month. One of the people interviewed was from Quebec who was a fruit picker. Earned $50 per day when he was able to find work. The camp ground owner said he comes home after work, gives him $20 and keeps $30.

That's life in the fast lane folks! We need workers, and people end up like this on the LESS than $10/hour line. This guy was no dope addict.

I do not know how long it takes for people to understand that there is a whole spectrum of folks out there. Most do not end up like this fellow because they are dope addict. There is a whole list of other reasons - lack of self esteem and the inability to make even the simplest of life decisions is just one example.

Whose fault is it? Who gives a chit! Recognize the fact that the problem exists and help them take care of it to improve their lives a bit so that you feel better, we feel better, and the people helped feel better.

Do such individuals move to crime? Sure. But most of them don't for many reasons, including that they have pride and morals to go with that.

I always have to remind myself that the lowlifes are the ones who call others names like that.

kitkat ... sorry, did not see your post since I posted several of my own as I was reading through this a bit at a time rather than reading it all first.

You are bang on!!!!!

When I was living in my other life it was well known that pickup trucks were easy targets and they were also plentiful and thus not as easily noticed. They are also necessary for putting the loot you stole in the back so you could carry it without being seen. In a chase they are tougher to stop as well as they can take a fair amount of abuse. That is why trucks are taken and that is why most are stolen by addicts feeding their habits. I do not blame the poor. I cite clearly that poverty is a precurser to addictions and thus to help out the poor will reduce (not eliminate) the incidents of drug crime. When Campball was elected we knew it was the best thing that ever happened to the drug business as he would literally create armies of disenfranchised individuals who would then turn to our product and we would make a ton of money. This has happened. I have turned over a new leaf in my life, but I still know what is going on. As for Don, I do not have cable as it is too expensive and I have a computer because individuals who believed in me have stepped up and helped me go to university and make something out of my life. Without this help I would be watching your T.V. right now Don. With an attitude like your it is no wonder we are where we are.