Think the roads are bad now?

exactly - what confirmed twinning of 97 south - we've seen 2km of twinning south of PG at Stoner. Wow, it's almost a superfreeway.....

Drove on that 2km at Stoner again yesterday --- once again mystified why it exists there. Why not from BCR south? Why not add more passing lanes at more places instead?
Inland container port? Another Huntsville?
Unload containers in Prince Rupert, put on train,put on truck,unload at PG , open up container, put on trucks and different train? put on truck ----- none of it makes sense to me unless of course plants like Boeing and Toyota and a big military base a la Huntsville along with 1/2 million people all locate in PG area in the next few years. Boy, is it going to be exciting!!

I just do not know why they keep speaking in these mysterious ways.

Just work on making the deals, make the deals, then announce them. This way they are just setting themselves up for ridicule both along the way as well as in the cases where there are failures to make the deals.

Remember the big plant the Mayor was ready to announce several years ago - ethanol. Or the twinning of 97 ... over 100 or 50 or some ridiculous number of years ... or that fellow from San Francisco who was going to build housing downtown .. all 16 or so units of it.....

What's happening with the golf course?? the foodteller downtown? .. the Inn of the North expansion? ... and on and on ...

Owl, do a search on Cariboo Connector. It will give you more info.

I think the City should have a rezoning clause that automatically reverts a rezoned property to its former zoning if the applicant fails to go ahead with the project for which the rezoning was done in the first place - give them a time limit of a couple of years, tops, to perform.

Non-performance will have a consequence attached to it, like a monetary loss.

The Backlin thing on Victoria and Seventh, the empty *hotel* lot beside the Library across from the stairs to the hill, the Gaia (sp.?) thing on Quebec street, etc.

Here they come with grand schemes, waste the City's time and money spent on rezoning, only for their own promotional purposes and if they can't persuade investors to come up with money for the supposed project (they never put up money of their own!) the lots end up as weed infested eyesores.

The Mayor should restrain from making a big noise until the projects are actually completed as promised, imho.

Political hot air. Would be a lot more efficient heating downtown P.G. than the powerhouse pipe dream they have been talking about. As I have said before, blah, blah,blah...ad infinitum.
metalman

tic toc, tic toc, tic toc

The Golf Course has been set back for at least one year due to continued litigation between the Course and Pomeroy.

The Inn of the North Expansion of 53 Rooms has been put on **hold**

I suspect that the widening of 97 South at Stoner may have something to do with the re-location of the South **scale**. Just a guess.

Inland Container terminal will be a Container loading facility , and there may an area somewhere that containers will be stored, however this will not amount to much of anything.

Dont hold your breath for any wide body aircraft landing in Prince George anytime soon, nor will there be any big distribution facilities built in the airport area. It doesnt make any economical sense at this time.

Prince George has been a Transportation Hub for Rail, Air, Road,Water, transportation for the past 100 years. Starting with the Paddle Wheelers from the South, and long boats hauling freight to Huble Homestead, and then overland to Summit Lake and then North to Alaska. This all took place without the input of Mr. Offet, and I suggest he has little if anything to do with what is going on now.

With Railways going West,East,North and South, Roads West, East, South, and North
Regional Airlines servicing surrounding areas, etc; we have always been a Transportation Hub.

Enough of the **Spin**

palopu: "Prince George has been a Transportation Hub for Rail, Air, Road,Water, transportation for the past 100 years."

Not quite that long, but close enough. and I aggree with the rest of your posting as well.

As far as widening sequence goes, I think they are also doing some of the cheaper or easier ones, such as going through Stoner would have been more appropriate .

Diplomat: from the government site: "The Cariboo Connector will be four-laned over a number of years. The first phase of improvements will begin over a five-year period, with subsequent phases introduced in the future. In rural areas, four-laning will be done where passing lanes are required. EVENTUALLY, the remaining portions will also be four-laned."

Not more information there. Less informtion. Unless someone has a better understanding of how the word "eventually" relates to years.

I just recall the initial press releases, including the many comments in here about the length of time being ridiculous. Many of us made posts about it. I suggested people may no longer have cars as we know them by the time it is finished.

That's rather pessimistic, don't you think?

Travelling by car from here to Cache Creek it is easy to see where the real dangerous 2-lane bottlenecks are. These are stretches where passing is virtually impossible due to vertical undulations (not curves) preventing a driver from seeing if there is any traffic coming from the opposite direction.

Trucks slow right down and frustrate those who get stuck behind them. Accidents waiting to happen.

So, the first steps are (already underway for the last 6 years) to build passing lanes in the worst locations. Then, eventually, levelling will be done and four lanes constructed, with wider bridges where needed.

The first phase of the four-laning program, once completed, will already make a big difference.

At least, a government is putting some money into highways again!

The Plett Road project at Stoner will more than likely connect north to a raised much higher four lane bridge to replace the low two-laner which has been flooded repeatedly
in recent years, leading to loss of lives.

We gotta give these things some time to get done and I do think that hybrid cars will be around to use the new highways, although I am not so sure about Cariboo Cadillacs, private monster pickup trucks.

"PG Poised to go over the brink with debt".

"Cariboo Cadillacs", I like that it has real meat on it. We have something original!

As for the Cariboo Connector, more passing lanes would be a huge improvement.

Poised to be a transportation hub? What was the first hint - 2 highways running thru town? Give me a break.

Diplomat posted: "That's rather pessimistic ..."

As I recall, there were numerous comments when it was announced just under two years ago.

Here is a link to a recent comment by Chadermando about 75 years. Cannot find anything on this side since the seacrch function is not restricted to this site and kicks me out to the entire internet world.

http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/4968/3/campbell+likes+cancer+clinic+in+pg

fourth post from bottom.

Here is a link to an external page:

http://willcocks.blogspot.com/2005/04/timing-political-but-cariboo-highway.html

" ... the downpayment on a $2-billion highway megaproject, albeit one that will unfold over decades ... "

"The first phases - $200 million over five years - barely starts the job of turning the highway into the promised 'Cariboo Connector,' a 460-km four-lane route through the Interior. About 37 kms are currently four-lane. By 2010 the government hopes to have added another 45 kms, ... "

At a rate of $200 million per 5 year period, $2billion will take 50 years .... and several governments later .... and no oil left even in the tar sands .... with tar sands workers long retired ...

50 years ago it was 1957 .... no hwy 16 connection to Jasper at that time. Kitimat was going to open up the North .... little did they know of what we know now.

But hey, it sounds good ... sort of like solving global warming 50 years from now.

Ain't nothin gonna happen till Gordie pays off the olympic debt he will run up!!

Obviously the expression *a $2-billion highway megaproject* is estimated in today's dollars and wouldn't be accurate as little as three years from today!

Like a *budget* the program is flexible and open to modification in respect to actual execution and actual cost.

Four years from now the next phase may:

a)need to be revised in scope, because oil has doubled in price to $120 bucks/barrel or

b) the traffic has tripled again and the need for 4-laning has become so urgent that all the remaining phases will be combined into two three year phases, or

c) the province is back on the ropes and traffic has slowed again to a trickle, therefore eliminating the need to 4-lane altogether and there is no money to do it anyways.

For now, I hope for the best and enjoy every new stretch of 4-lane and passing lane that are added as time goes by.

:)-

"Obviously the expression *a $2-billion highway megaproject* is estimated in today's dollars and wouldn't be accurate as little as three years from today!"

Diplomat ... I am not stupid, nor are most on here. We know that! ... who knows, we might be using US dollars by then and it will be only $500 million 15 years from now..

We are talking when the project to four lane will be completed.... at 43 km every 5 years it will be 50 years as well ... no matter which way you slice it ...

please stay on topic and don't divert it. the topic is completion, not cost.

We should probably unpave the PG to Jasper section .... the same as they do with forestry roads ... very low usage ..

;-)

All those rapid tranist lines in Vancouver ... we need to relocate them in 20 years since the population grwoth will happen somewhere else ...

ANd I was not born yesterday ... in most cases the result of putting in a transportation improvement is a facilitor for further development ... look at the Coquihalla as an example. ...

Drove on that 2km at Stoner again yesterday --- once again mystified why it exists there. Why not from BCR south? Why not add more passing lanes at more places instead?
Inland container port? Another Huntsville?
Unload containers in Prince Rupert, put on train,put on truck,unload at PG , open up container, put on trucks and different train? put on truck ----- none of it makes sense to me unless of course plants like Boeing and Toyota and a big military base a la Huntsville along with 1/2 million people all locate in PG area in the next few years. Boy, is it going to be exciting!!

"Diplomat ... I am not stupid, nor are most on here."

Sorry that you are personally offended by a general comment on the topic and that wasn't directed at you specifically.

"please stay on topic and don't divert it."

My comment that the project may be completed faster (or later) than estimated now (if conditions change and they most certainly will) can hardly be taken as an attempt to divert something - and, to divert to what and why?

Nothing sinister here, no hidden agenda, just a friendly expression of opinions.

It's called opinion250, after all.

IMO the most dangerous part of the 'Cariboo Connector' right now is the bridge at the bottom of the hill in Hixon. You have to be doing less than the posted 60km speed limit to make that corner with on coming traffic. It can be tight on icy roads with 63 tons coming off 5 kilometres of hill into a curved bridge that is not much wider than two transport trucks side to side separated only by inches. At least the Stoner bridge has a good run on either side of the bridge, although it is at 40km more speed. I can't see why we should still be driving on both those bridges.

I view the Cariboo Connector priority as being highest between PG-Quesnel.

Anywhere else in the province for the most part a highway will run up or down a valley aiding in highway construction. The facts of PG-Quesnel are that you are crossing at least four major drainage valleys without any use of natural topography. This makes highways more dangerous and difficult to build.

The problem is that this is the section of highway with the greatest need because it involves the largest concentration of economic activity north of the Okanogan. The southern sections have far less economic activity and are far closer to alternatives. I do not see the logic in building out from Cash Creek. I say build it out from where the economic activity, the daily traffic, and the greatest potential for future growth will be located. Plan for the future with the needs of today.

A PG-Quesnel connector could then be tied in south of PG to a PG ring road keeping industrial traffic out of the PG city bowl.

If a PG-Quesnel connector cost $500 million in provincial investment as part of a ring road contribution match with another $100 million from the feds then I would say that is the first step to saying we are serious about PG's future as a transportation hub to say nothing of the roads the region has paid for already tenfold to past governments subsidizing other political priorities.

Short of that I think we are all being short changed with the tax dollars this region invest in our government for the return they provide us.

I think a 4 laning of PG to Quesnel corridor makes a lot of sense. It would open up area for development between the two cities in the long run. I do not understand why they only built a two lane bridge over the Cottonwood.

Then they badly need a bypass through Quesnel.

The one for PG from 16 west to 97 south may be on the way sooner than later from what I hear. It may be at a different location than most think as well.

The next 50 years will be exciting times. Sometimes I wish I would not have been born till 2067 when most of our problems will have been solved.

;-)

Driving through town uses 45-165% more fuel than driving on the highway. A four lane highway gets you 10-20% better fuel economy.

My guess is our traffic levels are high enough that a PG-Quesnel connector and PG ring road would pay for itself in the long run through emission savings. The city would breath cleaner air, the Kyoto crowd would meet their targets, and the transportation companies would realize the savings to pass on to their shippers.

Win-win-win & and a win-win again for all involved.

I went to Quesnel Sunday and also shook my head at the fact that they didnt 4 lane the Cottonwood bridge, or failing that kept the old bridge for Southbound Traffic and the new one for Northbound. Incomprehensible.

Also fueled up in Quesnel 91.9 per litre as opposed to 99.9 in Prince George. We continue to get it in the ear, from our friendly gas stations in Prince George.

c) the province is back on the ropes and traffic has slowed again to a trickle, therefore eliminating the need to 4-lane altogether and there is no money to do it anyways.
Sounds familiar.

Cheers

Traffic between Prince George and Quesnel is certainly down. I suspect part of it is because Quesnel now has a Canadian Tire, WalMart, Superstore, etc; also understand Williams Lake is getting a WalMart. All the more reason not to go to Prince George to shop.

Williams Lake has a Rona. I drive there to shop at least twice a month ...... NOT!!!

However, we did drive to Quesnel to go to WalMart when it opened and we did not have one. Didn't buy much. Bill came to about $10 or so. Couldn't afford more since we spent the rest of our annual disposable income on disposable fuel.

;-)

Owl. Did you notice that when the sign first went up at Highway 16 for the Brick, that the sign also said that there would be a Rona there. It was about a month later that the sign was taken down, and then put up again, without the mention of Rona. Does this mean no Rona????