CN Rail has been handling Dangerous Goods through the City of Prince George for the last 50 or more years. There was a time when explosives, ammunition, etc; would be shpped by barge from Alaska to Prince Rupert and then on into Oregon to be destroyed. These cars would be handled through Prince George on a regular basis. In addition Dangerous Goods IE; Gasoline, Fertilizer, Diesel, Caustic Soda, Propane Gas, Liquified Petroleum Gas, etc; have been handled through Prince George for years.

Dangerous Goods are handled by Rail for a number of reason IE: Bulk Loading, Cost, and of course to keep these commoditys off our highways. These trains travel through Jasper, Hinton, Kamloops, Vanderhoof, Burns Lake, Houston, Smithers, Terrace, and Prince Rupert on a daily basis, so the problem is not restricted to Prince George.

To have the Railway avoid all the Cities because of Dangerous Goods would mean a major rebuild of the Railway at a cost of Hundreds of Millions of Dollars, and this will never happen.

Prince George is a major producer of Dangerous Goods, ie;

Hydrogen Peroxide (FMC) Corp
Sulphuric Acid (Marselex)
Sulphur Dioxide ((Marselex)
Sodium Chlorate (Chemtrade)
Gasoline & Diesel (Husky Refinery)

These chemicals have been handled in, out, and through Prince George for years by Truck and Rail. Because of location of the Plants and the Destinations of the Dangerous Goods it is highly unlikely that a system could be put in place where no area of the City would be impacted by the Transportation of these commodities.

Last but not least one must remember that People chose to locate their residential area next to the Railway Tracks for what ever reason. To locate by the Rail Track and then some years later expect the Railway to move because it is dangerous is a bit of a stretch.

The best people can do is to ensure that the Railways abide by all the Safety Rules that are already in place. If they do this then we shouldnt have a problem, however with downsizing, and the need to always improve the bottom line, quite often safety and maintenance take a back seat. That is when problem can arise.

People have been falling trees and dying every year for decades and centuries.

People have been driving on forestry roads that are inadequate and dying for decades.

There are many practices we have been doing in industrial and other settings for years whether manufacturing, transportation, mining, whatever.

Times change. What we used to accept as risks are becomng less and less acceptable as we move through time. Moreover, we are becoming more and more aware of risks which we were never aware of before. We used to accept people throwing the contents of their bed pans pout onto the public streets. In this country we no longer do that. In others, the streets can still be open sewers in parts.

To take a complacent attitude such as Palopu does is simply no longer acceptable by many.

I am one of them.

As Bush says, you are either with us or against us. I'll include you as one who is against us.

Red Deer changed with the times in 1995 and got a bylaw plus identified and signed a route. Have we done this? I do not think so.

http://www.city.red-deer.ab.ca/Connecting+with+Your+City/City+Services+and+Departments/Emergency+Services/Dangerous+Goods+Routes.htm

Owl. A Dangerous Goods route around the City would make some what of a difference, however it will never be built until someone can determine what is actually being produced and shipped from within the City and what is travelling through the City from other areas. Dangerous goods from the Old BC Rail Industrail park are shipped by rail and truck North, South, East, and West. Dangerous Goods from the Producers on the Pulp Mill Road are shpped in all four directions. Dangerous Goods from Alberta, and Vancouver, travel into the City and Through the City. Gasoline and Diesel from Husky Oil Refinery and from the Imperial Oil storage facilities on river road are delivered to service stations through-out the City. (Are you going to have all the service stations locate outside the City)

A mile of new Railway track costs in excess of $1Million dollars. To reroute the Rail tracks around every City in Canada that presently has the Railway running through or close to it would cost billions of dollars. Its not a question of complacency, it is a question common sense. I can gaurantee you it will never happen.

As you are fully aware their are more people killed by car accidents, and airplane crashes than there has every been by rail accidents. Dangerous goods or otherwise. In order to get rid of car accidents, and airplane crashes, we should ban cars and planes. I notice you talk about accidents on forestry roads, but ignore the real killer, accidents on public roads.

Now I suggest that when it comes to banning cars or planes to ensure that no more people will get killed, that you Owl will be very complacent and allow these killing machines to continue on the roads.

Bottom line is that most people have put very little if any thought into the handling of dangerous goods, and for the most part dont know what they are talking about.

Keep me posted on the progress you make in having the Railway change how they do business in Prince George, especially in regards to rerouting dangerous goods. I expect that you will be giving me a nil report for the next 10 years.

Before the coal trains started to move through Prince Greoge even the CN Rail PR personel apologized to the residents of the Nechako subdivison. Still that did stop them from moving their shunting yard west to under homes. For the past years the noise and danger from the the railway has been increasing as the trains have been getting longer and heavier.

Former Counciler Phyllis Parker is the only person pointing out that the danger from the shunting and idling trains that is right beside a City pumping station and our drinking water.

When the CN purchased the BCR the idea was that the yard would move out of the City centre to the BCR site and any inland port would be outside the downtown area.

My question is why did the Mayor and Council not support the move out of the North (1st Avenue)yard to the South (BCR)yard? This would have had the shunting of dangerous goods moved out of the downtown area, away from residential areas and our rivers.

Palopu … the best way to make sure that one does not die is to not get born in the first place. We will all die of whatever cause. Some can be prevented, so that the tendency will be that more and more people will simply die of old age rather than accidents.

As we gather more knowledge, we can be more definitive about risks associated with lifestyles which we as individuals have some control over and practices of others which we have little if any control over. It is those practices which accumulate liability with them.

With respect to dangerous goods there are several stages which should be in place once you ensure that the likelihood of an accident with the transportation vehicle is as low as possible with the technology we have (best drivers and controlling speed limits for instance) and mitigation is in place (double hulled containers for instance) should an accident happen.

The first stage is to restrict the travel distances through urban areas to a minimum, giving due consideration to the total population base within the potentially affected area associated with the path.

From that one will be able to advertise those routes to the population and drivers coming through the urban area with appropriate signs. This city has yet to do that. It is simple. It costs very little. It will notify those people who do not otherwise know that they live close to such a route and can determine for themselves whether they wish to remain living there.

The second stage is to determine trip origin and destination. If the origin is from outside the city and the destination is outside the city, then a bypass makes sense if there is enough of that type of traffic. If it is either an origin or a destination within the city’s densest population base, then one can look at relocating plants over time to locations which are outside those areas.

Without such knowledge, we are clueless and one can listen to people like you, Palopu and say you make sense, it is never going to happen. Well, it has happened in other places and continues to happen in other places. It is slow going in some, a little faster in others, but it happens. The other thing about it, it will never get cheaper. In any city which grows in size it will become more and more expensive to move over time.

Ottawa moved their tracks which where both passenger and freight from the downtown some 40 years ago. Toronto has been trying to move tracks from the Lakeshore for almost as long. Most of the freight traffic is now gone since the factories have moved.

There have been past opportunities in PG, some going back about 30 years, then at the time the coal trains came through, and just recently it was thought that many of the tracks on first Avenue would be removed. It needs a prod.

You are certainly not going to be any help with prodding the system. I am trying to, as are others.

Owl. Let try and keep things in perspective.

Firstly. The CN Rail line from the East through Prince George and West to Prince Rupert runs Across the Fraser River along first Avenue and then West. It is only close to residential areas from say Carney St., to Tabor Blvd after which it heads into the wilderness again. The BC Rail Line comes in from Vancouver on the East Side of the Fraser River, services industry on that side of the River and the Pulp Mills and then continues on North into the Wilderness.

If you were to look at a Map of the Railways through Prince George you would see that in effect they **skirt** the City for all intents and purposes.

In addition to where the tracks run there are also rules and regulations in regards to the Handling of Dangerous Goods in Railway Terminals and on Trains, one of which is that trains cannot travel at excessive speeds in yards or terminals, and this in itself helps to ensure that even if there was a derailment it would not be at a speed that would cause major problems. In addition rail cars that handle Dangerous Goods are constructed to exacting standards to ensure that they can withstand major stress if a derailment should occur. (So are truck Tankers)

Dangerous Goods rail cars are required to be situated stragically throught out trains to ensure safety for various reasons. One example is that you cannot put a carload of Ammonia Nitrate on a train next to a carlod of diesel. This in effect would create a huge explosion if both cars were to break up. These cars must be separated by at leat 250 Ft. There are many other restrictions in the handling of Dangerous Goods.

Dangerous Goods through the City of Prince George on trains is a non-issue. It has never been an issue, and it will never be an issue. Industry as it is and where it is cannot operate without these chemicals and the chances of them moving somewhere else in the near future is **Nil**

There can, and should be some things done to facilitate the movement of Dangerous Goods through the City by truck, and why this hasnt been done is beyond me, however at this point in time we are restricted in what we can do. Dangerous Goods by truck from the Pulp Mill roads must use Hiway 16 East and West, and Hiway 97 South and North. Dangerous goods from the BC Rail Industrial Park that must also use these Hiways and at present must use 97 North to service the pulp mill industry.

Service stations in the City of Prince George will continue to be serviced by tanker trucks that will travel through the City to these stations, where ever they are located. I cant see any change to this procedure in the near future.

CN Rail have in effect moved a large portion of its operation to the BC Rail side of the River. They have very few employees on this side. In the future we will see some increased trains and switching to service the increased traffic due to the Prince Rupert Container Terminal, however the Rail Yard on 1st Avenue will never become as busy as it was in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

As I said before this issue is more about residents being concerned about **noise** than it is about Dangerous Goods, and I dont expect anything will be done to change things.

Do you want to talk about safety in Canada? Try this article of a year ago.

“Canadian freight trains are running off the rails in near record numbers and spilling toxic fluids at an alarming rate, but only a tiny fraction of the accidents are ever investigated, a Toronto Star probe shows.
The number of accidents has risen each year since 2002, according to a decade's worth of accident reports filed by the Transportation Safety Board and obtained by the Star through a federal access to information request. There were 11,147 accidents between 1996 and the end of 2005 and almost all involved freight trains. Last year, there were 1,246 accidents — the most since 1996 — and 215 of them involved toxic and dangerous materials.”

http://www.thestar.com/Unassigned/article/202496

You and I obviously have different maps of PG. Try Google Earth and use the measuring tool too to see that we have something like
1. 2 miles of residential areas along the Fraser that are about 1,000 ft. from the track all the way along the bank
2. 1 mile of residential between Watrous and HWY97 that is about 800 feet from the tracks
3. 1.5 miles from HWY 97 to Otway that is in the range of 200 to 300 feet from the tracks (did you forget about Stirling Subdivision which is less than 200 feet from the tracks?)
4. 2 miles of Bench and Toombs, etc. which are in the order of 800 feet from the tracks, by the time you get to Sunset Place, the distance is about 1,800 ft.

The issue of noise is separate, but by no means a lesser issue since it happens every day and something can be done about it .... move the trains out of town, it is cheaper than moving the other infrastructure.

The issue of noise is separate, but by no means a lesser issue since it happens every day and something can be done about it .... move the trains out of town, it is cheaper than moving the other infrastructure.

Moving the trains out of town would benefit the residents as the noise is a constant facor. Moving the trains ouf of town would help in the revitalization of downtown which has constant attention from the Citizen. First Ave. is one block off downtown and there is nothing uglier in Prince George than First Avenue.

Owl. You are always going to have some residential areas close to Railway tracks. After all the Citys built up around the Railways all over North America. You will never in a Million years solve this problem. You might make a few changes in Prince George, however you still have every Town from Jasper to Prince Rupert with the Railway running through the centre of town.

I agree with your information about the increase in Railway accidents and that almost all of them involved Freight Trains, however what you failed to mention was that most of these derailments took place outside of any major cities. With the urban sprawl we are now experiencing all over North American, it is impossible to totally avoid populated areas/

Train Derailments for the most part are caused by failing track by trains operating at speeds in excess of 40 Miles per hour, trains through Cities never exceed 10 Miles per hour and therefore are a different kettle of fish altogether.

To give you some insight into how things work. In the early sixties when the BC Rail came to Prince George there was no Simon Fraser Bridge, and no BC Rail Industrial Park, and no road through the Industrial Park. (What is now 97 South)

97 South went across the Railway Steel Bridge East of Town, up the Hill and then South on what is now referred to as the Old Cariboo Highway past the Airport and on South. The whole area around the BC Rail built up after the Railway came to town, including your residential areas.

The same thing applies to Residential Areas West of Prince George they all built up around the Railways. Common sense should tell you that if the Railway relocated it would only be a matter of time before people would once again locate adjacent to the track.

Much like people building on a flood plain, or at the base of a volcano. Its not the brightest thing to do, but guess what? They do it all the time.

Find another horse to beat, this one is dead.

People didn't locate near a rail road track to be near a rail road track. That is an absurd argument designed to make a winning case on misleading assumptions.

People located where they did because that is where the city infrastructure was, or that is where the river was and the rail tracks just happened to run through the center of town and along the river.

The facts are that CN Rail could easily build 50km of track connecting Fort St James with Vanderhoof thereby avoiding both the downtown of PG as well as the river frontage along the Nechako River.

The facts are that all dangerous goods could be routed around PG with the ring road to the south and east of the city in the direction of the pollution. Residential growth is to the West.

With a ring road and small modification to the rail route PG could reclaim its river, not have dangerous goods traveling through the city, clean up the local air shed, reduce noise pollution, and enhance prospects for economic growth with new designated and serviced industrial parks that are appropriately located.

I feel the danger to the city water supply can not be ignored when all of our water supply is within 100 meters of the CN rail tracks along the Nechako river. I want to see a downtown that includes our cities greatest asset in its rivers. I want a Nechako river that can be developed for a tourism industry and for recreational purposes once the trains are gone.

My opinion is that once the container trains are going through Prince George it will bring more noise to neighbourhoods, dangerous goods through the downtown to access the 1st Avenue container port, and will virtually stop all highway traffic in places like Miworth that do not have over/under rail road crossings. All of which could have been mitigated with proper planning by the city and the rail road.

Re; "people building around a railroad - Palopu states "Much like people building on a flood plain, or at the base of a volcano. Its not the brightest thing to do, but guess what? They do it all the time."

Nechako Subdivion was the first planned suidvision in Prince George, it was built under the auspices of Central Mortgage and Housing and the City in 1959. It was the choice place to live in Prince George. There was one single track with intermittent rail traffic. Your comment about "not the brightest thing to do" is an insult to the people who felt safe to have their homes located there as it was under government auspices.

For those who know anything at all about patterns of human settlement you would know that Palopu, has it back asswards …

There is only one extensive transportation network (actually not quite after the invention of the airplane) which came first, then people. That is waterways - oceans, rivers and lakes, for many of the obvious reasons.

The Americas are the prime examples of that in that explorations by Europeans were very much dependent on the networks of waterways. The fur trade relied on it. They pointed the way and lead the way.

Thus, around here, people, whether First Nations or Europeans settled on the shores of the Fraser and Nechako first. Rail came afterwards in order to carry freight in and out. Rail located along waterways as much as possible for similar reasons that people came that way and built roads adjacent to waterways – it gave them an easy route to build though hilly country.

Communities sprang up along the rail outside of the key population nodes which came first. Penny, Sinclair Mills, Hansard, etc. Small mills sprang up. As with any transportation system, population gravitated towards the connectors between nodes. But that period is over. Those places have died. Highways became the new urban connectors of choice.

As roads were built to go from community to community and cars and population growth increased, the roads which went through cities often were paralleled as bypasses. PG even has one of those. So, we already outgrew the first highway through the City. We are on the cusp of outgrowing the second. Quesnel is in bad need of its first. Toronto is on its third or fourth iteration.

Along comes air travel. You can put airports anywhere, but they, along with railway stations and docks are put close to population bases. South Fort George grew up around the landing spot at the bottom of Hamilton Street. That was the street of commerce. The railway station was put in centre town, at Queensway or George and First Avenue. The airport was put as close to town as possible where planes could land in a flat field – the golf course.

The airport relocated. The highway relocated. The only thing which has not moved is the rail. Look in any city and both highways and airports have relocated over time. Rail has moved less often, but use of rail has, over time, changed. In Ottawa an old rail right of way from the west has become a rapid transit corridor. The one from the south into centre town has become a nice parkway along the canal in part and a convention centre in the middle of downtown.

In Toronto the old freight/manufacturing harbour has been converted to residential and commercial and has removed the need for tracks to serve freight. There the equivalent of our first avenue rail marshaling yards has the CN tower, the Air Canada centre (home of the Raptors) and the Skydome built on it. There the culprit which still divides the downtown from the waterfront is the Gardiner Expressway built to feed downtown from the suburbs. Rail has been an opportunity in the latter part of the 20th and the first part of the 21st century.

So, this is a horse that has been beaten in other cities, and eventually it will take the same route here it has taken in all other cities, the industrial sections and tracks associated with tracks will move as the population increases and/or as the population will no longer tolerate it, whether you like it or not. It is simple the fact of urban life. Just as one day the downtown will be a more desirable place again when we least expect it.

In the meantime the community will continue to be divided amongst those who do care and want to be active in helping it along, those who dodos, and those who simply burry their heads in the sand and go about their business and really don’t care one way or another.

I am in agreement, of course, with Chadermando's view. There are more things that cause cities to grow these days than access to jobs based on local natural resources. Tahtr is no longer the reason why cities prosper. Those who do not understand that stand in the way of cities moving on into the progression of 21st century urban development.

On of the things which stands in the way are many of the worst infrastructure vestiges of the old economy. Dirty industry, as opposed to clean industry, and dirty/noisy transportation sytems associated with them are some of those. Those are barriers.

Draws are excellent recreation opportunities and excellent places to live along with excellent places to congregate and community spirit.

We get some excellent grades in both categories of deterrents and draws. But we have to improve those where we get failing grades to excell as a city and ensure our sustainability as a small community or as a growing community.

Man oh Man. If pigs could fly they would be called birds.

Be sure to let me know where you are going to get the Hundreds of Millions, or maybe Billions of dollars to build a Railway bypass to Ft St James Etc;

What you people seem unable to grasp is that 90% of the Dangerous Goods come into and are used by Industry in Prince George.

What have you got West of Prince George other that the Pulp Mill at Kitimat: And some Methanol going to Methanex in Kitimat, plus some gas and diesel. So at the end of the day most of your Dangerous Goods will still go to and come from the Pulp Mills and industry on the Pulp Mill road, and to and from Industry in the BC Rail Industrial park.

There is very little Dangerous Goods bypassing Prince George, most of it originates, or terminates here.

Insofar as residential districts being located by Railway tracks. We had just as much Dangerous Goods going West of Prince George when the Nechako Subdivision was built as we do now. The double tracking doesnt even get to Miworth and was put in much later because of the Coal Trains from Tumbler Ridge, and now will probably be used by the Container Trains. I suggest that most people who moved into the Nechako Subdivision didnt have a clue as to what was going by their door on the Railway, much like people to-day who do a lot of talking but couldnt tell you what is being carried on these trains.

Its always interesting to hear from people who want to change Prince George from what it is to the new Shan-Gri-La, or the 8th Wonder of the World.

Fact of the matter is you cant get your streets repaired, the downtown is a national disaster, and guess what. All the money you are going to have available for the next 10 years will be spent on vested interest projects, for self serving politicians and citizens.

Insofar as Citys growing its about time some people woke up and smelled the flowers. California, has grown, Washington and Oregon has grown, the Lower Mainland has grown. Prince George and the Central interior in the past 10 years has not grown, and with all the downsizing etc; planned for the future it will not grow, except through births which at this point in time barely exceed deaths.

Other than jobs there is very little in this town that attracts people, and we all know that when the job goes the people leave. This has been going on for years.

I was born in this town and have lived here most of my life and have seen it twist and turn for many years. There are no great secrets, and there will be no Shan-Gri-La. Just jobs, rain, snow, long winters, short summers, pollution, and tourists moving through going somewhere else. Most of your business and real estate is owned by absentee landlords, who wouldnt stay in this town if you paid them.

Have a nice day.

The first subdivisions in Prince George were planned and built on the Cresents,Laurier, Ross, and Mcbride, and in the Miller Addition, long before the Nechako Subdivision came along.

"What you people seem unable to grasp is that 90% of the Dangerous Goods come into and are used by Industry in Prince George."

Tut tut ... such words as "you people" , eh?

What you, my dear Palopu seem to be unable to grasp is that there comes a time in each cities life for industry to relocate.

It happens over time in every single urban area in the world......... it will happen here as well .....

The first inhabited subdivision in PG was along Hamilton Street in South Fort George. The crescents came later.

You know, the priorities of the initial "white" settlers seemed to have been different from those who are here now .... $$$$$$$$$$$$ .....

A theatre in 1910 ..... and a theatre in Barkerville .....

http://www.settlerseffects.ca/pls/cats_web/WEB_EXHIBITIONS.show_image?ITEM_ID=315&LANG=EN&VRN=5

"The facts are that CN Rail could easily build 50km of track connecting Fort St James with Vanderhoof thereby avoiding both the downtown of PG as well as the river frontage along the Nechako River."

I like your vision of Prince George Chadermando. Would you be so kind as to explain the above a bit more? I note in the Citizen today that CN is spending several millions on its' expansion plans and perhaps they would be interested in good public relations and spend some of the money by-passing vulnerable areas of the City.

It would seem timely that the issue not be dropped.

Palopu is just too pessimistic.

There is only one way that the CN would relocate its Railway and that is if the Federal Government, The Provincial Government, The Regional District, or The City of Prince George paid for it.

They would not relocate and spend hundreds of millions of dollars so that they could be seen as a good Corporate Citizen. In addition once they did it for Prince George they would be expected to do it for every City in Canada and the cost would be in the Billions. This will never happen.

They have every legal right to be where they are. They are regulated by the Federal Government which would never force them to move with-out a compelling reason. (No compelling reasons have been given on these posts).

I think that we can all agree that the City of Prince George will not pay for any relocation. It seems they barely have enought money to fill pot-holes.

Owl. South Fort George was a Village and didnt become part of Prince George until sometime in the Sixties.

Industry in Prince George was mostly located along 1st. Avenue, and the East End of Prince George. They relocated to the BC Rail Industrial Park, and to the Pulp Mill area sometime in the Sixties, so I guess what you mean is that they should re-locate again.

With all the construction going on at the BC Rail, upgrades to existing buildings, new buildings, and the proposed Container Reload terminal, in addition to the CN Wheel Shop, and of course the new Industrial Complex going in on the Pulp Mill Road. (Maple Leaf Industrial Park) plus the Renovation of the CN Round-House into an 80,000 Sq. Ft. Container loading facility, with 10 acres for Container storage.

With all this going on, I am sure that people will pause and say **wait a minute** is the the right thing to do. Maybe we should move the Railway, all the industrial parks etc; to Salmon Valley. This will only cost us a few Billion, and will leave some areas downtown for our beloved residential friends, plus they will have access to the river and will be able to go canoeing.

Somehow I dont think that will happen.

"In addition once they did it for Prince George they would be expected to do it for every City in Canada and the cost would be in the Billions. This will never happen."

"This will only cost us a few Billion, and will leave some areas downtown for our beloved residential friends, plus they will have access to the river and will be able to go canoeing."

I love your jesting. Problem is, you actually believe that and as a result you are a defeatist which is not the type of individual a City such as PG needs.

I might see the same challenges you do but I try tp find out what one has to do to overcome them - first by looking at where others have been there and done that and learn from them, adopting those methods, or adapting them to suit our needs or, as a last resort, figuring out how to overcome them on our own..

Relocation of rail lines from downtown, from old industrial areas which have moved to outer rings of growing cities, from highway expansions, etc. etc. have happened and continues to happen to this day. It is difficult, no doubt, but not impossible. We could have seized the opportunity before, but failed to do so. That is no reason ot give up.

I have mentioned two cities so far. I will mention one more because it was closer to the size of Prince George today when it happened.

It was one of the darling, text book “downtown revitalization” projects in Canada when it was conceived about the time of Expo 67. It opened a few years later under the banner of both CN and Eatons, the Midtown Plaza in Saskatoon. At that time the population of Saskatoon was around 110,000. No major City by Canadian population standards, in a province which was then already not growing as fast as several other provinces in Canada

They removed the tracks and railway station from downtown and used the land to build the plaza as the anchor to the west end of the 4 block long 21st St E shopping street with the Bessborough Delta Hotel and the River walks anchoring the east end.

Today there are cargo marshalling yards to the south west and northeast of the City, not in the center of the City. The latter has started to be bordered by housing and it is creeping closer to the line running to the south west of the city.

So, it can’t happen you say? I repeat, for the last time, it has in many cities in one form or another and will continue to happen as the city landscapes change no matter how blue in the face you become insisting that it cannot happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midtown_Plaza_%28Saskatoon%29

"our beloved residential friends"

and I suppose you also believe that this city belongs to our "beloved industry friends".

Problem is, the two are intertwined, other than those who are absentee owners. The city belongs to the people who call this home, whether they work here, own businesses here or whatever the reason they may be here. We all have to get along. We all breathe the same air. We all drink the same water. We all want to enjoy our city as much as possible and most want to invite others to visit us here and enjoy it together.

I would think that very few want to live in a pig sty and invite others to join them unless they are pigs.

For those who do, so be it. I am not one of them.

And further to that Palopu when you state "Industry in Prince George was mostly located along 1st. Avenue, and the East End of Prince George."

Life before the 60's actually happened in Prince George. In the 30's there was a park on the Nechako with cribbed in areas for kid's swimming, picnic tables and paths. The town used to congregate there.

In the 40's Major General Ganong's residence was by the river.

The landscape along the river was valued and used.