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Rising Costs Can Another Project

By 250 News

Saturday, August 04, 2007 04:00 AM

For the third time in a year, we are hearing about a project that has exceeded its planned budget before the project even gets off the ground.

The first was the project to twin the Simon Fraser Bridge.  The original budget was $32.5 million but the lowest bid for the design build project was $15 million over that mark.  That project has been split into a design project first, then  build, in hopes of increasing the competition for the build portion and bringing in a lower price tag.

Then there was the case of the underpass that will link the Strathcona neighbourhood with Carrie Jane Gray Park.  The budget for that Heritage River Trails project was $550 thousand, the initial bids came back at more than twice that amount, and while the project was revised, the final bids came in at just under a million dollars.

The latest project to exceed the proposed budget is the addition of a 6 bed care unit to the Houston Health Centre.  The budget on that one was $1.8 million dollars, but the actual cost has doubled, so the whole project is now on hold.

In the Houston case, the reasons for the hike in costs have been listed as an extremely active construction market, higher costs related to the small size of the project, extra costs associated with  geo-technical  and civil engineering work, consultant fees  and fees for equipment and furniture.

So what is it that sends a planned project into the red before any sod is turned?  There is a myriad of reasons says Prince George Construction Association President Rosalind Thorn “There may have been a case where the project was designed by someone in the lower mainland who is not as familiar with the northern needs, it may have been a case where the plans were drawn up several years ago and construction costs have escalated since the initial design was put together.”

Thorn says there is also a price to be paid if the project isn’t specific “If  the project is vague, and is not specific on the materials or the design,  then a contractor is  forced to  make a guess on what it might  cost,  so  if the details aren’t there,  then  there will be a higher price.”

The reasons behind the increased costs won’t help those who had hoped to see the expansion of the Houston Health Centre’s facilities for seniors.  Northern Health says it understands the community will be disappointed, and it is looking for ways to address the needs of seniors in that community.

Rowena Holoien, Northern Health chief operating officer for the Northwest Health Services Delivery Area says the seniors care 6 bed project and the new 24-7 service were designed to work together, “While we aren’t going ahead with the seniors’ beds at this time, I want to assure the community that the 24-7 project is definitely continuing and we look forward to having it up and running very soon.”

The 24-7 service is expected to begin later this year.

    
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Comments

Talk to any developer around PG and they will tell you a huge factor driving increased costs of housing is the city. The permits fees, the duplications of reports, the extraordinary length of time to clear paper at the city, the various city cost charges, over engineered/ecological/geotechnical/social impact studies that all have to be paid for. Any product that comes out of the pipe in PG for housing has to carry all that load. Time is money and the city wastes enough to heat all the shacks downtown. The contractors are not paying for that wasted time anymore. The market has to.

Sure there is a tight labour market, but all that means is the contractors can refuse to eat anymore costs. Lots of city and government driven costs were eaten by the contractor in the past, but not anymore, not in this market.
Too bad the Liberals will not can the Vancouver Convention Centre addition they are doing that so far is more that 50% over budget. It is the Liberal's "Fast Ferry" fiasco but because the media is controlled by the Liberals it is not being mentioned to the public. I am not a NDP'er just want what is fair. If there was that much coverage for the Fast Ferry's there should be for the VCC addition.
I agree with Lunarguy about the VCC being a fast ferry type fiasco politically driven from the premiers office. I understand it has more than doubled in price from the orignial $400 million to now closing in on a billion dollars.

Gordon Campbel has signaled to the construction inudstry that it is time to add that extra $tens of thousand to your contract bids, because times are good and time lines are tight.

In PG a lot of big jobs wrap up in the next few weeks and things will start looking a lot different IMO.
YDPC ... those are not technically housing costs, those are land development costs. Those costs impact the cost of the lot to the house builder.

Remember that the city used to do much of the development themselves other than Heights Land.

We are currently getting a glut of large tract developments which we have seen very few of in the past. Those subdivision developers really have not had that much experience with those kinds of developments. When was the last time we had a developer want to develop something the size of the Fraser Bench? Those are start from scratch types of developments.

Look at the College Heights development form the past. Sinking roads, sinking driveways, sliding slopes without proper drainage. Other than the roads, many people do not notice the problems a lack of good engineering has caused to the area and the subsequent cost of that after the fact rather than before the fact.

Developers always bitch. Tell them to go to Vancouver and build there and wish them luck. They need to get better acquainted with what it takes. Don�t blame the City.

BTW, where is time money in this case? Has anyone seen Fraser Flats to be off the starting blocks quickly? If they wanted to, they could have been building right now. They should not blame the City. Use another excuse.

Besides, this is about the Houston clinic. Since when is PG City involved in a Houston project? Was it the City that caused an increase in Simon Fraser Bridge cost increases? How about the Tunnel? Surely the hold up was not the City holding up its own project.

Those estimates are preliminary. Rosalind Thorn has it right. We know none of the details. I agree with here statements. I also think that the blame rests with those who provide the estimates during the various phases of a project. They are often not that in-tune with the construction industry and its current climate, whether that is today or tomorrow.

It goes like this:

Governement: �I want to build a bridge, how much will it cost?�

Quantity Surveyor: �What will the bridge look like?�

Government: �Don�t know, haven�t designed it yet.�

Quantity Surveyor: �Okay, last 4 lane bridge that long like the type you might be thinking of was built in ABC City in 1998. The cost was $14million. Costs have escalated 55% since then. Add 20% for contingency due to unknowns, the bridge will cost about $25million if built today.�

Government media release: �the government will be putting out a design-build RFP for a bridge estimated to cost about $25million.�

Quantity Surveyor on phone to government: �Good Lord. What is this about design-build I saw in your press release? You didn�t tell me about that! That bridge will likely come in at least another 20% higher due to the project conditions which was not the way the ABC City bridge was built!�

And so it goes. Been there, done that.
"If there was that much coverage for the Fast Ferry's there should be for the VCC addition."

The VCC project overrun is beinf covered extensively by the media.

The big difference is that the VCC will be a usable first class convention center, whereas the Fast Ferries were/are an unusable pile of aluminum scrap!
Las vegas casino mogul (steve?) Wynn offered to build a convention centre at no cost to taxpayers as long as he could put in a casino. Why didn't they let him?
If the fast ferries are unusable, why are the new owners planning on running a North Van to Nanaimo service? These new owners bought the ferries for less than scrap. Why would you sell for less than scrap? To make the ferries look like an even bigger fiasco? Indonesian buyers offered alot more money, but their offer wasn't accepted.
I agree that the press largely ignores the numerous scandals that have plagued this government.
I wish people would recognize the fact that, although politicians like to take credit for booming economies, its really the demand and high prices of resources that cause B.C. to boom. Nothing more.
Actually,the Vancouver Convention Center is no better than the Fast Ferry fiasco by the NDP.
The only difference is the fact that it is happening during the run up to the Olympics and the Liberals are managing the bad press a little better.
They are good at keeping the heat off and we are good buying the spin.
And we buy into the hype.
And yes,it will perhaps be a usable building, but the initial costs to build it will follow tax payers for a long time but then,so will the cost of the Olympics.
The convention center may be a usable building,but there will be some other expensive ones that are not!
And it is only one project that got out of control.Wait until the final bill comes in after the Olympics, when the boom is over,gone,pfttt!
I guess we just have to find out the hard way.
People and their attitudes are so predictable and the government understands that perfectly!
That's called politics.
There have been half a dozen private investors' plans to do something with the rusting Fast Ferries, but nothing has materialized.

Only when I see one the Fast Ferries in an actual money making (profitable in spite of the high fuel costs) extended service will I believe that they are anything but a useless pile of aluminum scrap. They gobble up fuel at a frightening rate - that is a design flaw.

I'd rather live in a booming B.C. then in a B.C. that curiously enough was the only province in all of Canada that caught a ten year Asian Flu while all the other nine provinces were showing positive growth, including the Atlantic ones!

Misguided politics can have a profound paralyzing effect on even the most advantaged states, provinces or countries.





I thought they said a train derailment along the river in PG was impossible. Good thing it happened below the water well on the Fraser and not above the water well on the Nechako.

During the privatization of BC Rail I remember politicians tellng me once CN owned BC Rail they would relocate their lines away from the Nechako and the downtown (Bear Lake-Fort St James-Vanderhoof). Seems the opposite happened with the container port location and now we have had two derailments in that yard in less than a year with the cities main water wells only meters from the track.
in the early 90's bc had the highest growth in the americas, second only to arizona. despite having a government that was not liked by big business. when there is money to be made, they come, regardless of government stripes. canadians companies operate in castro's cuba, and u.s. companies are making millions selling goods to chavez. as bc's boom and bust cycles continue, which they will until we start getting some value from our resources (refine our oil, minerals, etc; make some furniture and other value added wood products), people will migrate to alberta and back with the ebb and flow of our primary industry economy.

the frustrtating part of all this is a bc political scene thet bounces from one side of the spectrum to the other. we get bombarded with info from the parties and their think tanks. however, none of this info comes from the centre, which would probaly be where the real trurh lies.

"however, none of this info comes from the centre, which would probaly be where the real trurh lies."

Well said. Truth is a hard thing to come by and the right and the left have done their self-serving level best to obfuscate it.

I shudder to think what the newest mega project - the Performing Arts Center - will cost if and when it gets to be foisted upon us.

In the meantime we cope with cracked and potholed roads and many sidewalks that are not navigable by people in wheel chairs and parents with baby buggies.

It puzzles me why there so much money available for all of these mega projects (here and in the rest of the province) while there is very little money available to fix our slowly but surely crumbling health care system.
pulpworker

"...in the early 90's bc had the highest growth in the americas, second only to arizona.."

True. And then ten years of decline as soon as the NDP got in power in 1991. Certainly can't argue with the past examples of what happens to the ordinary working person and the economy when socialist engineers like the NDP are in control of the government. People stop doing things and the economy goes down.