Like anything else promised to the 250 regions by the Liberal government, they will defer or forget it to use for special projects in the 604 area like the Sea to Sky Highway, the convention center, 2010 olympics, rapid transit and so on. Can't expect more from Bell and Bond.

It may be fiscally irresponsible to start without the full funding in place, but do it anyway. The PGAA has one third of the money, and that's enough to move the dirt that needs to get moved this year, so gitter dun!

I too wish we'd get started anyway. If anyone should know the political leverage we should have regarding this (too long delayed) funding, it's Jim Blake. But he's too tied to the Liberals to use it (co-chair of Pat Bell's campaign). Then again, perhaps it's because the chair is Jim Blake that we even got the project in the first place.

"One thing is certain, when asked if the Provincial Ministries were having trouble “writing the cheque” there was only silence."

Silence from the Mayor, as well. And the City Council.

Not a peep. No protest rally. Pity poor Prince George - stuck again on the sticky flypaper of bureaucratic red tape and delaying tactics.

Who knows, the money in the budget has probably been spent already at some other airport - like Kamloops or Kelowna and nobody wants to admit it.

I smell a rat.

Cheers!

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE RAT.
WHY ALL THE SILENCE FROM THE CITY,THE MAYOR,OUR THREE MLA IMPOSTERS AND OUR AIRPORT AUTHORITY? WHY ISN'T SOMEONE SCREAMING AT CAMPBELL? WHERE IS OUR REPRESENTATION? BEN...MAYBEE YOU CAN SHAKE THE TREE. HELL..DON'T SHAKE IT, TEAR IT DOWN.EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT HAS TOTALLY DROPPED THE BALL ON THIS PROJECT.IT'S B.S. IN THE THIRD DEGREE.WE NEED SOMEONE TO COME FORWARD AND TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS BOONDOGGLE. GOOD THING NONE OF YOU ARE ON MY PAYROLL.YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO BRING YOUR LUNCH... YOU WOULDN'T BE AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO EAT IT..

Boy, would it ever be nice for our governing politicians to take a "leap of faith" and buck up the funds now.

Is it maybe because all of them have seen the business plan for the expansion and it is weak ? The longer run way made sense 20 years ago but now with all the cargo airliners being built with much longer flight capacities it is hard to justify the expense of landing, refueling, maybe picking up/dropping off some items ( but then that requires a whole infrastructure to be built locally ). At present it is not like any of the cargo companies are saying darn it is too bad we couldn't stop at PG and drop some of our cargo off, cause if they did it would just have to take another jet to Vancouver to get on its way. Not much international air cargo in/out of PG.

What the PGAA should have been concentrating on was improving the passenger experience and drop the high AIF ! Simple things like actually having a walkway right to the airplane, not going outside and a parking lot that you don't have to carry your luggage up / down flights of stairs. Another set of washrooms would be nice as well.

The premise for the expansion is not to drop cargo, but to allow refueling etc here. It is less expensive to use PG as a stop rather than Anchorage, everything else being equal.

The A.I.F. is a function of expansion and is one benefit of the business plan. It is also a business tool to negotiate down or to make disappear for interested parties that can bring more to the table than just smoke.

"Is it maybe because all of them have seen the business plan for the expansion and it is weak? "

No. They have gone over the matter (the business plan) more than once, and then once again just recently and they said it is sound.

They stated that all due diligence has been exercised and the project got the green light.

Premier Campbell touts it as another important element of the new corridor to Prince Rupert's container port development.

Kevin Falcon said that he has to look at his budget and see where he can find the money. The Finance Minister says it has been allotted since February.

My conclusion: it was hijacked for some other city's airport because it didn't have the words *Prince George* written on it.

The squeakiest wheel got the grease. We were passed over and now it is head scratching time.

To again debate the viability (proved to be sound) of the project after all the criteria have been met and the funds have been approved - what practical reason would that serve???

Thanks, opinion250 for following up and digging up some disturbing facts on this obvious debacle!

Cheers!

The money may have been spent at both Kelowna and Kamloops airports. Both were looking at expanding their facilities esp. runways.

Check the castenet story today with reference to the City of Kelowna needs to borrow $45million to complete airport renovations...And using the $10 AIF program will repay all loans by 2017...base on 1.6 million passengers a year by the year 2015....math seems to work...whats our numbers?

Well our AIF is $15 and the business case is making even less sense as I think about it. So we want planes to divert to PG to refuel, a 1% diversion equals 5-10 minute flight time, and then back to get on course. The cost of fuel in Canada is higher than American fuel and so far there is no discussion on what would be the landing fees charged to the airlines.
So just why would I, as say DHL, go out of my way to land in PG ? Granted, while in Alaska (interchanging parcels with all the other big boys in the cargo world ) I could load up the plane with less fuel and then land in PG, refuel and carry on, but why would I when time is money in the cargo business and I can easily load up with enough fuel in Alaska to make the trip with no stops and still make money, very well actually.

Lunarguy.
I cannot answer your questions but the fact remains that a volunteer board of directors from our community are convinced that it is doable or it would not be an item of discussion.

The only reason why I bring up these counter points, is maybe this is why there is a delay, and has been delays for more reviews, etc. It also seems at this time that there is not enough money in the budget for it, but of course politicians can pull money from a different budget if they really want it to happen.

Runner46 **Volunteer** board of directors. I dont think so. These directors are appointed and paid a stipend.

Lunerguy. You are the first person that I have seen on these posts actually asking some sensible questions, about this Airport Runway Expansion. There will be no big **rush** for any Wide Body Cargo Jets to land, fuel, and take off from Prince George.

In addition. What are the Statutory conditions that Hill says have to be met??

The money generated from the AIF has to be spent on Airport Improvements, however I beleive that the money for the next 5 years at least has already been spent on the Terminal Expansion, and the Parking lot. Airport Improvement fees generate approx 1,900,000.00 per year for the Airport Authority. The balance of their revenue comes from Rental, and Landing and Take off fees. I beleive that revenue over expenses for 2006 was in the area of $40,000.00 In addition they owe money to CIBC, and interest and principle on this loan has to start being paid soon. In addition they are supposed to start paying the Federal Government lease payments on this Airport starting in 2011.

So in essence we can say that the Airport Authority has very little money available. I doubt that they would want to spend the $11 Million they borrowed from the Northern Initiatives Trust, without some sort of commitment from the Provincial and Federal Government, because they will need every cent from the AIF to pay back this loan. The money from the Prov/Feds is **free** money as far as I know, however it now appears that maybe it has some strings attached. Keep in mind that there are 25 other Airport Authoritys in Canada, and if the Feds are going to give **Free** money to Prince George, then they would be approached by other Authoritys for the same treatment. There is more to this proposal than meets the eye.

For the life of me I cannot make a connection between the Airport Runway Expansion and the Container Port in Prince Rupert. When we talk about tying into the arrival of containers in Prince Rupert, what do we mean. All the Containers coming into Prince Rupert are going to the US Midwest by rail car. I cant see any connection between these containers and the Airport, however I am willing to listen, if someone can explain it.

Amazing how the comments here have shifted from the topic (Where's the Money for Airport Expansion?) to questioning the viability of the whole expansion project.

If those who were obliged to provide the money (as promised and on time) actually read some of these comments they must already be sighing a sigh of relief! Whew!
Looks like we got away with it!

In the meantime:

Prince George Airport Authority
Master Plan Public Meeting
Wednesday, September 19th 2007
7:00pm - 8:30pm
Civic Centre Room 208

Cheers! See you there!

"What are the Statutory conditions that Hill says have to be met??"

That the White House approves any changes to Canada's airports since Homeland Security could be affected by increase in capacity on the continent.

In addition, Homeland Trade has to approve increases in shipping capacity on the continent.

The unpublished outcome of the recent summit of the three amigos....

I agree Palopu.
The entire airport expansion process seems "odd"?
And I can find no valid reason to keep trying to establish a link between the airport expansion and the Container Port in Prince Rupert.
Seems like it may be just marketing spin?
Not suprisingly,most people in Rupert that I have talked to don't find a connection either,or even care about it!
What gives with that?
I guess we will see what happens in Rupert itself over the next year or so.
While things have improved there somewhat,many people think that there is also a lot of hype involved and after the initial grandstanding over the port opening,things will settle back to where they were previously,at least for a while.
Guess we wait and see.
I may even decide to move back there later on, but not under the present circumstances.
Another downside is the house prices have gone whacko!
Way too much money for a bunch of junk that has been on the market for years without a hope of selling.Now they all seem to think they are worth much more money!

When lines of transportation cross, there are often opportunities. When one line is improved, providing opportunities for new goods to travel along it, there may be vlaidity in improving others.

Bulk goods to PG from other countries or other parts of this continent, cheap land, cheap housing to assemble products, smaller products result which can be transported economically by air to the next destination, and you have an opportunity to become part of a new chain ....

If speed of delivery is important the manufacturer would have shipped it via air right from point of manufacturer. If you look at the larger electronic manufacturers they have now integrated their warehouse right into the major carrier's warehouses. Even for service related issues, often the parts are already at the airport and just computer printout magically gets it under way.

Now if we actually get into making something here then yes having the cargo companies using us as an interchange would be great.

Owl. You know as well as I do that the **bulk commodities** are shipped from Canada to China, and South East Asia, and India. That is where the manufacturing is done, and then the **cheap** finished product is shipped around the world and of course back to the USA and Canada.

Nobody in their right mind is going to ship any bulk commodity from China or SouthEast Asia to Prince George to be manufactured into a finished product, so we can forget about any commodities coming from China, etc; to Prince Rupert, and then to Prince George.

You might be able to get some commodities to come from other areas in North America to Prince George and have them manufactured into a finished product, and then sent somewhere else in the world, however we dont have any cheap labour, and we are very far from any major populated areas, and therefore the possibility of this happening is remote at best.

Even if it did happen, what are the chances that the **bulk** commodities, or the finished product would come in or go out by Air Cargo. Air Cargo is the most expensive way to ship a product.

Every one connected with the return of Containers from the US Midwest up to and including Prince George, are thinking in terms of loading Containers to China and South East Asia with bulk products such as Cotton, Soybeans, Wheat Products, Canned Fish, Lumber, Pulp, Paper, Pellets, etc;. None of these commodities would move via Air.

As I said before, I cannot make the connection.

The 3 Panamex Cranes that were installed in Prince Rupert, were manufactured in China. The cement that was used in the construction of the Container Terminal to the best of my knowlege came from China. I suspect that the steel did to. This first shpping Company to sign of was COSCO.
China Overseas Shipping Co.

This whole Prince Rupert Container Concept is about shipping loaded containers to the American Midwest. This has been stated over and over by everyone from Campbell, to CN Rail, to Maher Terminals, etc; etc;

The Prince George Container Terminal and Intermodal Terminal built by CN in Prince George is to capture the tonnage that presently goes to Vancouver and ship it through Rupert. It is not a big deal.

Prince George was never a big player in the overall scheme of things insofar as the Prince Rupert Container Terminal goes. All we did was get in on the hype, and are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

The first proof of this will be when the first train goes through Prince George to the US Midwest, and then after that one train per day, without any impact whatsoever. Outbound containers will make little of no differance over how we are now doing business.



You might get to the point where Wide Body Cargo Jets will once in a while land here for fueling, however that would be the only reason. They will come in loaded and they will leave loaded.

I have visited both Kamloops and Kelowna airport websites and have encountered only positive future visions and initiatives.

They are engaged in airport and runway expansions, the one in Kamloops got the green light on July 18th 2007.

I would find it hard to believe that they met with as much local negativity and condemnation as is expressed by some in Prince George judging by the comments here.

Hopefully a local opinion poll would indicate that there is almost unanimous support in Prince George for initiatives (such as the runway lengthening after the airport expansion, customs service) that give us other options when the beetle epidemic begins to have a real pronounced impact.

If one asks for nothing and plans for nothing the results are guaranteed to be nothing.

Diplomat. Both the Kamloops Airport and the Kelowna Airport are talking about expansions of runways etc; and are mainly concerned with Tourism. Guess what. They have hundreds of thousands of tourists that go through their towns and Airports every year. Kelowna flys to Various Canadian, US, and Mexican Citys. Neither Kamloops or Kelowna are looking to get into the Air Cargo Business, as far as I know.

Air Cargo is a highly competative business, and a lot of Airlines wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole. You either have to be in the business or out. Most Air Cargo Space is controlled by 5 or 6 Major Airlines who buy space on other Airlines and basically control the business.

Air Cargo of any significance was discontinued into Prince George back in the days of Canadian Airlines International. They were the last to fly Jets into this area that could take any kind of a payload for Air Cargo. They shut down this operation and of course were later sold, and then went broke. The jets that fly into Prince George to-day are so small that they cannot handle any cargo of any significant size.

Large shpments by Air from anywhere in the World are flown to Vancouver and then trucked to Prince George, Kelowna, Kamloops, etc; Even some Air Cargo for Vancouver BC is flown into Seattle Wash and then trucked to Vancouver, as it is more efficient than taking partial loads to Vancouver. There is no volume to warrant a huge Air Cargo Business in Prince George and probably never will be.

I dont doubt that you could get unanimous support for this initiave from the people of Prince George, especially the way it is being presented, however just because people support an idea doesnt make it a success.

If you use the Airport Terminal Expansion as an example, this building has for all intents and purposes been idle for the past two years. The only international flights that have passed through were 12 to Mexico in 2005 and another 12 in 2006. This is a total of 24 more or less International Flights between December and March of each year. For the balance of the year 8 months this building is idle. Do you call this a success?? If so, at what point do you call it a failure? When you have no International Flights. Even though the people in Prince George were unanimous in support of the Terminal Expansion it didnt make it a success. If Transat Cancels the Mexican trips this year you will have diddlysquat for International Flights.

Dont confuse common sense with negativity. All those people in favour of these projects would be conspicous by their absence if they were called upon to put their own money into the venture. Its easy to make grandiose statements and forcasts when you are spending taxpayers money, however the silence is deafening when if comes to spending your own money.

Its a sad day indeed when all we can do to make a living is whine and plead with the different levels of Government to give us back some of our tax dollars, so that we can give the impression that we are doing something. What really should be done is massive tax cuts so that people can make their own decisions as to how they want their money spent, not some newly elected politician who couldnt follow a crumb trail back to his office.

Havent you ever noticed that almost every subject on these posts is about getting money from Government for some **ding dong** project. Since when did the Government become our sole source of revenue and ideas. Where is private enterprise??
When did we become a socialist country?

"...an expanded runway will allow Kamloops to successfully market national and international sports tournaments, secure international charters, attract more international students for Thompson Rivers University, provide a level playing field to attract new investment and businesses and assist the region to develop alternative replacement industries and jobs for the forestry sector."

from the Kamloops Airport website.

If one doesn't have a proper runway to handle cargo planes and direct flight international charters from Europe, Asia, Japan etc the planes will not be able to land here, hence no business.

Even in Kamloops it isn't just about tourism, as you can see.

In any case, the pertinent research into viability has been done in Prince George by those who come up with the money, so what seems to be the problem?

The airport and the customs office wouldn't be *idle* if the longer runway would bring more traffic.

This whole argument is like the one about the chicken and the egg and which came first!

Perhaps we should listen to you and turn down the money! Kamloops, Penticton, Castlegar, Kelowna and so forth will gladly take it and put it to use!

Obviously, without the longer runway we are stuck in the same old rut.

"Where is private enterprise??
When did we become a socialist country?"

Plenty of private enterprises go broke every day.

Governments collect taxes and provide infrastructure, such as schools, hospitals, ferries, highways, and yes, even airports.

And I have gotten used to it. It works. What does that have to do with socialism???