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Letter to the Editor

By Submitted Article

Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:42 AM

Editor’s Note:

The following is a letter sent to Opinion250 outlining an incident in  Northern B.C.   Opinion 250 has contacted thr RCMP involved and confirmed the contents of this letter.  The RCMP have apologized.

 

On Friday, August 24, 2007, I had an experience with a few members of the Dawson Creek detachment of the RCMP that I believe the public should be aware of.  It had to do with their incorrect knowledge of the laws regarding the transportation of unrestricted firearms (hunting rifles) and the potential illegal treatment of legitimate law abiding citizens who legally use and own firearms. I have reason to believe that others who are not thoroughly familiar with the appropriate legislation may have been unfairly charged and may have lost their personal property and need to be aware of that.

To set the scene, Jim Kassen and I were heading from Jim’s residence east of Pouce Coupe to hunt moose for the afternoon and evening off the Wangler Road approximately 40 miles west of Dawson Creek. Our plan was to go hunting as  soon as we finished some business in town. (We both had a valid hunting licence and a valid Moose Species Licence.) 

 

I am retired after some 32 years with the federal government, most of which were in management, and Jim Kassen is the recently retired President of Northern Lights College. While completing our business in town, we were pulled over by two RCMP constables in a cruiser with lights flashing.

Jim had inadvertently driven straight ahead on 103rd Ave from the left hand turn lane in front of the Co-op during the very busy pre-noon traffic rush which was exacerbated by the closure of the traffic circle. As soon as Jim saw the lights of the police cruiser in the rear view mirror,  he pulled into the first available parking spot while the cruiser pulled in behind.

The cruiser blocked Jim’s truck as well as blocked west bound traffic flow on 103rd which was extremely busy. Jim got out of his truck but was ordered back into his vehicle by one of the constables who approached the driver’s side window and advised Jim of the reasons for the pull over, i.e., he didn’t turn left from the left turn only lane. The constable then noticed that there were two hunting rifles (non-restricted firearms) between the passenger and driver’s seats. Both rifles were unloaded with the actions open and the officer could clearly see this. Her manner changed immediately, she ordered Jim out of and to the back of his truck while I remained in the passenger seat with my seat belt on.

The constable inspected both rifles asking where the locking mechanisms were and I advised that they were not required as both Jim and I had valid Possession and Acquisition Licences (PAL) and at least one of us was in the vehicle at all times. She then proceeded to take the firearms from the vehicle. At that point I asked what she was doing. She advised that she was seizing the firearms as they were not properly locked up for transportation and that Jim and I would be charged under the criminal code for not meeting safe transportation requirements.

At this point I introduced myself advising that I was a federally certified Master Firearms Instructor fully knowledgeable in the legislation and regulations regarding the transport,storage and use of all firearms. I explained that our two non-restricted firearms met all legal requirements for transportation in an attended vehicle and that if she took the firearms it would be and is in fact theft of private property that was being transported legally. Furthermore to take the firearms without a lawful reason was an abuse of her authority.

In order to meet all legal requirements for transportation of non-restricted firearms in this case:

1. The firearms must be unloaded - both of our firearms were unloaded and as additional safety features, but not required by law,

a) the actions were open so any third party who knew anything about firearms could see they were unloaded and not in the battery or ready-to-fire position.

b) the firearms were kept below the dash and out of view so anyone walking or driving by would not be alarmed. The firearms could only be seen if someone came up to the vehicle and looked down. This, by the way, is a common method for local firearms owners and hunters to transport their firearms.

2.  The vehicle must be attended by at least one individual who has a valid PAL or POL – in our case both of us had valid PALs and were in attendance. If we left the vehicle which was a pick-up truck, the firearms would have to be placed out of sight and the area they are in must be locked (for example covering the firearms with a blanket or jacket and locking the cab of the pick-up.) It is not a legal requirement that a non-restricted firearm be disabled by a locking mechanism while it is being transported.

3. The firearms should be registered even though the time frame legally requiring registration of non-restricted firearms has been extended by the current government until May, 2008. - Regardless both our firearms were registered.

The constable stated that she knew the firearms laws and had several charges pending for firearms offences of the same nature. Neither Jim nor I offered any resistance with the exception of my request that she return the firearms to us, that we did not authorize her to take them, and that the firearms met all legal requirements for transportation. Regardless, she took both firearms to her vehicle. She verified the firearms registration, our PALs, our driver’s licenses along with the fact that both Jim and I had no criminal record (either serious or misdemeanor) and had been law abiding our whole lives.

After confirming this she also called a back up squad car even though there were two constables present and we were following all direction given and were not involved in any illegal activity. While this was occurring, traffic was delayed on 103rd and the general public had to assume there was a major police take down of what must be a couple of dangerous criminals.  

Meanwhile I remained in the passenger seat of the truck with my seat belt on.

After the back-up car arrived, the constable came back to our vehicle and advised Jim she was letting him go on the traffic violation but would not release the firearms because she was charging us with unsafe transportation under the criminal code and that her immediate superior had confirmed the charge. I again advised she was incorrect and that the firearms must be returned. At this time I removed my seat belt and went over to her and the other two constables and advised her once more that she was mistaken and that she should return our firearms.  She asked for proof of the legislation and regulations which I had at my home in Vernon but not with me. I suggested that we go to her office and pull up the Canadian Firearms web site which was set up and is maintained by the RCMP. I advised that the legislation and regulations are accessible there. While she seemed to be unaware of this site she agreed to try this.

Jim and I drove to the RCMP station where we were confronted by the seizing constable’s immediate supervisor who proceeded to berate us for telling his constable that she was wrong and abusing her authority. He also reiterated that we would not get our firearms back and that we would be charged under Section 87 of the Criminal Code of Canada. I again stated my experience and background as well as certification and that we had done nothing wrong and wanted our firearms returned. I also asked to bring up the RCMP’s Canadian Firearm’s website. He refused, dismissed us, and was closing the reception window when I requested a meeting with his superior.

10 minutes later I was ushered in alone (Jim was directed to remain in the reception area) to meet with the Senior Officer in Charge who’s first position, based on information from his subordinates, was that we were going to be charged. However, he was open to my describing the circumstances of the firearms and the legal requirements for transportation. He also had a brochure in his possession from the RCMP’s Firearms Centre which identified the transportation requirements for both restricted and non-restricted firearms – the Dawson Creek detachment in error was applying the restricted requirements to non-restricted firearms.

Restricted firearms (handguns etc.)must meet a much higher level of security for their transportation such as disabling by a locking mechanism and be in a locked opaque case, not to mention additional paper work requirements.

With the brochure in his possession as well as confirmation from the police help line it was confirmed that I was right and that neither Jim nor I had done anything illegal regarding the transportation of our firearms.

The Senior Officer in Charge advised that our firearms would be immediately released and he apologized for the mix-up. I went out to the reception area and waited with Jim for the return of our firearms.

I felt we all learned something: –

justice can be obtained by standing your ground, persevering, and being assertive when your rights have been violated; the Dawson Creek RCMP now have a clearer understanding of what constitutes safe transportation and law abiding citizens will have nothing to fear; and most importantly, a senior member of the force have proven that he was open to protecting the rights of honest law abiding citizens – after all we are human and errors do occur.

Everything had been resolved and the matter was finished to everyone’s satisfaction or so I thought. The supervisor brought our firearms out to us and I thanked him. You can imagine my shock when he bluntly stated to Jim and I that we would have been treated a lot worse than we were had he been present at the time our firearms where confiscated. Apparently in his mind citizens are not allowed to advise RCMP or object when their rights are being violated and/or the RCMP actions are wrong or illegal, and anyone who questions them will be treated severely. This belief is so ingrained that he made the statement to Jim and me together in the RCMP reception area which has a security camera that monitors and records.

At the end of the day,nothing was learned and nothing was gained! I am gravely concerned that this kind of behavior and treatment of honest citizens will continue if these attitudes are not addressed.

What occurred was wrong on so many levels:

1. The role of the RCMP is to enforce the laws of the land, not to create their own laws. If they don’t know the firearms laws that have been in place for 15 years and slightly updated 9 years ago in a community with a significant number of firearms owners and hunters, what other laws are they ignoring or applying inappropriately or illegally?

2. This is an area that attracts hunters from all over the province as well as all over the world. The activities of firearms owners and hunters contribute substantially to the local economy. Mistreatment, false charges and harassment will all have a negative affect. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for citizens in a court of law and therefore should not  be an excuse for the RCMP. It’s a fine line between being ignorant and acting ignorantly – in this case the seizing constable and immediate supervisor crossed the line which leads me to believe that this occurs as a matter of habit, not as a very rare or once in a life-time situation.

3. By the constable’s own statement she has seized firearms from several other owners for the same reasons. Many people do not have the knowledge,the will or the communication skills to defend themselves and may have lost or will lose their property even though they have done nothing wrong. In our case the replacement value of the 2 firearms is approximately $3,000.00.

4. When did it become illegal for a law abiding citizen to advise the RCMP that they are wrong and that their actions are wrong? When pointing out an error, omission, illegal action, etc. why should honest law abiding citizens be openly intimidated?  At the time of the threat the supervising officer had admitted that a mistake in interpretation had occurred, been ordered to return the firearms, but at the last moment added his intimidating comment.

5. At least 7 to 8 person hours of RCMP time and equipment was spent trying to prove that Jim and I had done something wrong instead of simply applying the law as it stands. A simple look at the RCMP’s Canadian Firearms website, either the “legislation and regulation” section or “brochure” section would have provided concrete proof of Jim and my innocence (a 5 to 10 minute exercise at most). Surely this time could have been better spent on highway patrol or investigating criminal activities such as break-ins or drug gang activity.  But then of course law abiding citizens, especially seniors who can’t move very fast, are much easier targets.

6. How can the RCMP earn and maintain respect when they treat two retired  seniors the way they did even though we posed no threat and were involved in no illegal activity?  If they can treat us the way they did, I believe this can happen to anyone and probably has happened many times to law abiding tizens in the Dawson Creek area. What right does the RCMP have to treat two retired seniors as criminals in an active public place (seizing their firearms, calling for back-up, impeding traffic) when they have done nothing wrong or illegal with their firearms. Our only fault was to state our innocence and to advise the RCMP officer that her actions and information were wrong.

 

I was raised to respect the RCMP, and I call many active and retired members friends. When I conduct a course (CORE or Firearms Safety) I always stress respect for enforcement as they have a legitimate job to do.

At this stage I can only say that my respect for the RCMP was severely shaken on the 24th of August, 2007 and it is only people like the Senior Officer in Charge that allow me to believe there is still some hope.

I wrote this letter hoping that it will be a catalyst that prevents others from being treated as we were, or at the very least residents of Dawson Creek will be better prepared to defend themselves when dealing with the institution that is responsible to protect law abiding citizens.

Respectfully yours,

J.C. (Jim) Parfrey

Vernon BC

        


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Comments

I thank you for printing this. It is a clear example of what can happen to an individual, especially one who isn't as informed about what their rights are. Had this happened to me it would have probably gotten a lot further into the legal process before it would have been corrected. It is also another excellent reason to scrap this entire farce we call a firearms registry.
Another case of ABUSE OF POWER.
Man, it is tough to maintain my inherent sense of respct for the R.C.M.P.when I hear about this sort of thing happening.
Further, I was recently ticketed wrongfully under the motor vehicle act, which I have disputed, within their rules.
The situation around my supposed violation lends credence to the commonly held notion that our cops have quotas for tickets and fines. At any rate, I have learned in the past not to question a cop, they really do not respond well to criticism or doubt as to their authority. I realize that not all cops are like this, but there are certainly quite a few. Another very descriptive term that fits is 'arrogance'
metalman.
Yes arrogance for some. I think some people just don't know how to admit that they actually didn't know something.

" You can imagine my shock when he bluntly stated to Jim and I that we would have been treated a lot worse than we were had he been present at the time our firearms where confiscated." Why the threat? Power struggle to get the last word I guess.
I am not surprised at this. This has happened to me on several occasions with respect to issues where regualtions are involved where I knew the regulation and the person responsible for administering the regulation did not.

Eventually they backed down after I explained the regs. On a few occasions I had to take it to an appeal tribunal and won every single case.

I do not think, however, that I would have had the guts to do what this individual did, even though he knew he was right. Especially so given all the situations which happened with the RCMP recently.

They make up the regs as they see fit, and most people are not the wiser for it. Not only that, but everyone looses their time and often money as well.

So, how often do such "errors" based on ignorance of the people who should know happen? I think more often than most people realize. Let's start off with a number like one incident a week for each officer out there. I would not be surprised if that proves to be low.

Mistakes are mad by us all. However, mistakes made by RCMP may prove to be very injurious and even fatal.
Must be nice to be mistake free. The problem with the RCMP is that they have to recruit from the human race so despite what the public expects perfection is not assured. Apparently, in this instance they apologized and everybody went their separate ways. If their noses are so out of a joint why don't they make a public complaint? Maybe they can have the whole Dawson Creek Detachment fired.
Well why couldn't she instead of calling for back up call in for the regulations off the site that would take five minutes to look up? She had the rifles with her. Once again something so small and minor they try to turn it into a big deal. I'm just glad it was the female officer present and not the one who stated they were lucky he wasn't there.
Geez Heidi,must be nice to have 20/20 hindsight.Call for the regulations off site? It is not like CSI where everything is at your fingertips the second that you want it.Methinks the two elderley gentleman also could have contributed to the situation by raising a ruckus about their firearms.Two sides to every story but as usual you fail to see that and take the first report as the gospel.
I don't watch CSI I watch Dateline ;) and Nancy Grace.(is that her name?)Wish she was canadian so I could email her all of this hindsight I possess. Love that woman! It's a gift....the hindsight thing ;)
Thanks for posting your story. I agree; there is a major problem with the way RCMP officers treat law-abiding citizens.

I am a good person, I contribute to society, and I follow laws, but I have never had a pleasant experience with an RCMP officer. They are rude, they are intimidating, they abuse their power, and they treat everyone like criminals.

I wish that I could at least say that they're there for me when I need them, but I have had to ask for their help before, and they did not even bother to show up.
Troll, I can't believe you would blame these two gentlemen for actually standing up for their rights. If only we all could be that knowledgeable about the law and stand up for ourselves. Did you read the article? The RCMP has apologized, that would lead me to believe they finally realized they were in the wrong. There is no doubt in my mind that when some people strap on their guns the power goes right to their ego's. That's not to say that there aren't many dedicated and honest police, because there are. However the dishonest ones need to be watched very closely.
The thing we all know and understand is that everyone can make a mistake.

However, not everyone reacts the way the officer reacterd when they were told to give the rifles back. Their superior said that there was an illegal seizure.

So, they are being insubordinate to start with by taking that attitude and they are being disrespectful to the public they serve.

Finally, the thing that is very scary, is that the police carry a weapon. When they make a mistake, it can be a deadly one. Not only that, but we see once more, that when they do make a mistake, they become defensive.

The police, due to the cery authority they have and the outcomes which can occur due to mistakes on their part, have a much higher level of accountability and due diligence they must exercise in carrying out their duty. It is too bad that so many on here fail to understand that slight, but important, difference between police and other enforcement agencies.
An apology isn't good enough. RCMP constables have 24-7-365 access to Crown attornies; THEY HAVE NO POWER TO ARREST ANYONE IN FACE OF READILY AVAILABLE EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE.

The arresting officer should be charged with Theft, Assault and Unlawful Confinement, if not Mischief as well.

As for the RCMP their work product is: junk. Check the following case, which reveals that a single zealous RCMP member of the fascistic Firearms Registry, took "200 hours" of public time (over 1 tenth of his work year) to smear a single applicant for a licence:
http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2001/2001bcsc579/2001bcsc579.html

As for the same RCMP cop noted above, someone from his office e-mailed threats to a Firearms trainer. At the time, Rich Coleman (Solicitor General; retired RCMP) declined to appoint a Special Prosecutor, and the threat complaints were sandbagged:
http://www.lowe.ca/Rick/FirearmsLegislation/ReportMagazine.htm

Face it: In BC Officers of the Court are above the law.

I omitted to mention that RCMP parasites wasted over $2 billion dollars on the Registry. After that atrocity, cops - especially Vancouver's worthless wage takers - intentionally delay service, while accessing Registry information - much of it injudicious findings of unqualified and self-interested slugs - to ensure "officer safety." Vancouver cops take 12 minutes respond to "major crimes," then they usually don't do anything, and retreat to Timmies to inhale do-nuts.

Facts

The work product of each of Canada's cops yields 1 jailed convict per year.

The work product of each of Canada's cops yields 1 charged person per month.

Canadian cops creatively unfound up to 19 out of every 20 substantiable crime complaints before them.

Canadian cops enforce lynch-law offences such as: Contempt-of-cop; associating-while-youthful; sleeping-while-homeless; foraging-while-starving; driving-while-black; talking-while-native, etc.

The average Toronto cop engages a violent person only once every 5 weeks (and cops claim the "violent" characterization).

Toronto cops substantiate only 1 in 100 public complaints against accused cops.

In one decade, the City of Toronto paid over $30 million to settle claims of wrongful arrest, cop theft and assault.

BC's Justice Institute permits a recruit to engage in supervised law enforcement after only 65 days of class training (it takes over 600 days of schooling to become a lawyer).

------------------
Do you rely on the Vancouver media? Sun/Province covered up the AG's appointment of a Special Prosecutor to investigate his own brother. They also won't report irregularity of judgements issued by certain Supreme Court judges. Both daily rags - including today's Province - are falsely posing AG Oppal as a hero, waging war against street gangs, polygamists and protesters. They downplayed Oppal's stonewalling on the Basi-Virk disclosures of general Liberal Party corruption. And Vancouver's non-mainstream media dare NOT produce anything critical, because threats to have a special tax put on giveaway publications, is constraining honest reportage.



Well, Mr Cut and Paste is back for another tour.I see that you are flogging the same old material, yawn. You trekkies are all alike.
There is NO excuse for the RCMP not knowing what the legislation really is with respect to the firearms law --- considering that this happened in a northern rural community where it is not uncommon for folks to be in possession of legal firearms this lack of knowledge is mind boggling ---- it is not a case of "making a mistake"
I've read ONE side of this story, and ONE side only. Not saying the RCMP are correct at all, but come on, using terms such as
-"parasites"
-"worthless"
-"unqualified slugs"
-their "work is junk"

hardly makes for a good discussion. Turn the story around a bit and say the officer made a mistake and let them go with illegal guns, and a crime was committed. Needless to say, the RCMP officer would have been cruxified. She obviously made a mistake, apparently quite arrogantly, however, the facts appear to be that:
A) they erred on the side of caution
B) they finally admitted their mistake and corrected themselves

I doubt I'd have been happy if I was one of the two gentlemen, but on the other hand, it's not an 'end of the world' situation. Life isn't always fair. I've had something similar happen to me many years ago. I didn't like it one bit, but I didn't HATE the RCMP over it....I just hated the situation.
Buzz, right on! But let's not forget about those who may have been erroneously charged, convicted and fined in the past. That part bothers me quite a bit and I wish the detachment would announce soon that a complete investigation is in progress to right any similar RCMP wrongs that were mistakenly committed then.

Perhaps I am expecting too much?

Cheers!