Until 1994 in the US, a taser was classified as a firearm. Only when an internal mechanism allowed firing of the prongs without gunpowder, did the classification change. As with a firearm, use of same is of last resort.

In the airport incident, the cops discussed use of the taser prior to contacting the victim. When approached the man raised his hands and backed up when he saw the weapon. Self defence was not an issue. In face of compliance, police made no effort to restrain the man by physical means. They chose to taser him at length, until he was handcuffed. Although trained in First Aid, they left a dying man on a floor without aid.

The film reveals that 1 of the cops - the black one - clearly didn't participate in either the decision to taser, or what happened after same. A 3rd officer appeared equally detached, but assisted in the handcuffing. In my opinion, 2 cops should be charged with Aggravated Assault. I have a problem with the fact that the other 2 made no effort to prevent the Assault, but prevention would have been difficult.

Unfortunately, Youtube removed the video, thus, Europeans who are concerned about the type of back alley justice that characterized Canada's savage police services, will not be allowed to assess the video.

Reminder: on average Canadian cops deliver a paltry 1 conviction per unit per month; the work product of same causes the incarceration of 1 convict per year. Our paid protective surrogates creatively unfound as many as 19 out of every 20 substantiable crime complaints that come before them. Canadian cops taser when other means are available, because other means is a reference to work. And work is anathema to our blue slugs.

A major problem with scrutiny of our police services is the lead role that Rich Coleman (ex RCMP) plays in the government. Unfortunately, the NDP heavy hitters James-Kwan-Farnworth are ALL either married into policing or have criminology backgrounds. This legislature is the worst in BC history. The people should appeal to European pressure in face of our lack of representation.

I agree with all that's been said. Bear in mind that for every incident of corruption, brutality and even murder by police you hear of it is likely dozens of others have been covered up with no witnesses or video available. Also, even if 2 of the cops appeared not to participate fully(and I'm far from certain they did not), they ALSO should be held accountable. One of the biggest problems is not just that their are bad cops but that the good ones are expected to cover up for the bad ones. As a result they will and should be judged by their worst members. What a disgrace!

Why was the one cop kneeling then putting all his weight on the poor guys neck? You can actully see him lift his all his weight from his left leg to apply pressure witht the right. There was no need for that and what probably did the poor guy in. Welcome to Canada..

I don't care if you don't speak the language at all - if you travel to another country, you should know how to act like a proper human being.

Getting off a plane and going nuts - chucking a laptop & a chair etc. - causing a scene - you're asking for a pepper spraying or a tasering. Period.

If I get off a plane in Moscow, you can darn well bet that I'll find my way through immigration to the baggage claim area - even though I don't speak or read russian AT ALL. It's called human skills.

But even if I COULDN'T find my way around -I sure as heck wouldn't cause a scene and start destroying property, because I know that I'd end up in a russian jail, pepper sprayed, tasered or worse.

I'm not saying the guy deserved anything close to the outcome that happened - but he sure didn't deserve to be talked to calmly and given a helping hand either. He deserved to be pepper sprayed or tasered and hauled off to jail. If you're going to act like a criminal fool jerk - you deserve to be treated as such.

What happened after the tasering is the real tragedy ~ but in the end, his actions were the initial cause of his own death.

If you disagree - maybe YOU should be tasered.

Period.

The duke has spoken.

I heard on the CBC yesterday how a guy in Canada went into a diabetic coma, lost consciousness and crashed his car into a retaining wall.

He was dragged out of the vehicle, manhandled and handcuffed. An ambulance was called when he did not come to. A bloodtest revealed that he was in a diabetic coma. Glucose was administered on the way to the hospital which saved his life.

Next it was determined that he had two broken ribs, a collapsed lung and several TASER marks all over his body.

The RCMP report did NOT mention that he had been tasered!

The man had no recollection of anything that happened to him after he came out of the hockey arena and got into his car.

He had neither alcohol or drugs in his system.

I suppose that according to the above post he deserved to be tasered because he did not (the duke) "act like a proper human being."

The RCMP is always looking for recruits.

Wow Diplomat. You're a piece of work.

A person that is unresponsive due to a diabetic coma - and a guy acting like a maniac & throwing chairs & a laptop around an aiport because he was frustrated, are 100% COMPLETELY different situations & stories.

One guy needed medical attention - the other one needed to be treated like the criminal he was. He didn't deserve to die, but he definitely didn't deserve to be treated with kid gloves.

If you act like a criminal - you deserve to be treated like one.

By the way, Way to totally manipulate & twist around what I said just try & prove a non-existant point.

What a goof.

And for the record - if someone was throwing chairs at YOU - you'd be screaming for the cops the taser his rear end into next year & save you.

You know it's true.

qwaszxter: "Was he asking for help?" He kept yelling for someone (in Polish) to call the police. If they had let his mother into the baggage area to meet him and comfort him the whole thing would have never happened.

Wow, duke, you are a real piece of work yourself!

I admire your nerve to totally ignore my point why a man who was in a diabetic coma apparently showed evidence of having been tasered by trained professionals.

Better read Meisner's comments once more and watch the video, the one that has given Canada a black eye all over the world.

And, if someone in an airport was throwing chairs at me at would duck and head for the nearest exit!

Truth, B.C. is not the only province where deaths from police tasering have occurred.

Fortunately videos by bystanders are valuable irrefutable evidence. We are promised an investigation within the next two years.

Take your time.

Cheers!

Who is the under score dook? I wonder.
Must be a cop, or a wanna bee, no one else would support the actions of four armed bullies doing what they must have fantasized was a high risk takedown. Come on Duke, one guy, four armed and trained police officers, plus a couple of rentacops (sorry), and they HAD to tazer the guy several times?
Is that the only way they know how to control a suspect now? Get real, for the love of justice! with four against one, just take a few extra minutes, talk to the guy, surely these four cops are not so dull that they could not have subdued the dude physically, you know, one guy distracts him while the others move in? how dangerous could that be? Oh shoot! I ripped my glove! Come on, the guy was not pointing a gun at them, not even waving a knife! If someone was throwing chairs at me, I'd duck, not kill him. If I thought I could take him, I would go after him, unless maybe I deserved to have a chair thrown at me. If he was throwing a chair at me and I had three of my buddies backing me up, there would not be any doubt who would prevail, and no weapons of any kind would be necessary. This is a clear case of unreasonable force, the cops should be penalized for panicking and accidentally killing the guy. I don't think it matters if he was on angel dust, or waving a knife, or was simply panicked himself, it was unreasonable force, period.
People, remember Ian Bush, and Kevin St. Arnaud, and others. If you get pulled over for speeding DO NOT lose your temper, panic, or shout in Polish and throw a chair, you may die. Duke, if this had happened in an airport in Moscow, they would probably give the guy a good thrashing and throw him in the clink.
Just an opinion.
metalman.

If I was a police officer with a taser I might just tazer Duke for being such an idiot... I'm sure his hyperventaliating can be seen as threatening especially when he starts calling everone a goof. Cops don't like the cocky type like Duke so first option would likely be to tazer the bro.

Duke is a prime target to be tazered to death if I ever saw one....

IMO the guy was frustraited and could have easily been talked down if someone took the time to figure out what his problem was. After breaking the computer he probably did commit a crime and should have been hand cuffed and taken aways for his own safety as well as to press charges. I don't think a tazer was needed by the four officers to put handcuffs on the man.

I guess it comes down to the fact tazers kill people by the very nature of their electric shock, and the tazer is far more unpredicatable and lethal, as has been proven, then any firearm usage would be. Should any minor violator be subjected to this kind of torture that can result in death. Certainly not. I don't care if they are throwing bannana's or tables a tazer is an extreme act especially when they aim for the neck like they did in this case.

Why don't the police want to return the video? Because it's evidence in an investigation.
Why is the Polish government asking for an investigation? Because one of their citizens died in a foreign country. It's standard to demand an investigation regardless of the circumstances.
Metalman: "...surely these four cops are not so dull that they could not have subdued the dude physically, you know, one guy distracts him while the others move in? how dangerous could that be?" Anyone remember Clay Wiley? At least six Mounties tried to subdue him physically with no success, and remember that this Polish gentleman was behaving like Wiley was.
Regarding the guy slipping into the diabetic coma: some of the signs that someone is going into diabetic coma include restlessness, inability to talk, and altered mental state. Depending on how 'restless' this guy was, and how 'altered' his mental state was, tasering may have been appropriate.
Chad: "...a tazer is an extreme act especially when they aim for the neck like they did in this case." A taser is not a precision weapon like a handgun is. Police aim at the centre of mass, but the probes will hit where ever, depending on how the electrical wires are loaded into the pre-fired taser.

Criminals should be treated as such. The tasering was fine & totally justified. It was the kneeling on his neck that was the big problem - and not getting help in a timely fashion when he was found to be not breathing.

You three (Diplomat, Chadermando & Metalman) are the same people that probably think that OJ was innocent.He acted like a criminal - and he got treated (at least initially) as such.

I'm not defending the kneeling on his neck - but the tasering was more than ok.

Again I say - If you're going to act like a criminal - you deserve to be treated as such.

If this poor guy that unfortunately passed away at YVR had acted rational from the start instead of losing his marbles and throwing computers & chairs around - NONE of this would have happened.

Sure, things escalated quickly and took a tragic turn. But lets look at the root of the problem:

The guy went nuts and acted like a maniac.
He brought the situation on himself.

PERIOD.

You three can all go to Starbucks and drink Mochaccinos, plan your next tree hugging & discuss how evil the taser-happy cops are all you want, but the reality is that we're too easy on criminals in this country ~ and it's about time the RCMP started to get a bit more heavy handed.

It's just tragic that it ended the way it did.

By the way Chadermando - I won't dignify your classy "Duke is a prime target to be tasered to death" with a response.

Duke says, "If you disagree - maybe YOU should be tasered." Is that the Blackshirt approach to free speach?

"The guy went nuts and acted like a maniac.
He brought the situation on himself."

I have a great deal of difficulty with this attitude because it infers that it is OK to kill someone who is distraught and acting badly in a public place. We all want decorous, polite society, but the reality is that sometimes people have arguments, shout, use foul language, get angry and throw things and do all sorts of other socially unacceptable things, sometimes they may even be partly justified. Sometimes, as well, people have medical problems that cause that kind of behavior. Does that condemn them to death? It may mean they should be restrained, as police have been doing for hundreds of years, but killing them?

This episode reminds me of the episode in the UK a short while ago when a man was killed in the Underground system. All sorts of excuses were made for the police, but a public inquirey recently said the police were at fault and the killing was not justified. There have been too many police killings recently. It is time for a full inquiry, with the power to subpoena and compel testimony as well as lay charges, if necessary.

Speaking as a diabetic, excessively low blood sugar readings (less than 3 or so) can cause uncontrolled and strange behavior. It is well documented. Personally, I do not respond like that (I get the shakes and people presume I am drunk), but some diabetics do. In fact, my first question when I saw the video and how the man was behaving after 10 hours of being ignored, was whether he was a diabetic and needed to eat something. Does anybody know the answer to that?

duke:"You three can all go to Starbucks and drink Mochaccinos..."

Thanks for the suggestion! I will definitely go there and stay away from Tim Hortons! And I think you know the reason!

"It's just tragic that it ended the way it did."

No kidding! That's what happens when 50,000 volts are applied to a person who has basically suffered a nervous breakdown and needs help!

"... it infers that it is OK to kill someone who is distraught and acting badly in a public place."
I have to disagree with you here Ammonra. The police did respond, with force, to someone who was acting in a highly violent way. "Acting badly" isn't a strong enough term to describe his behaviour. He was being violent. The police's intent was not to kill him for the way he was acting, but to subdue him... to stop the violent behaviour, using the least amount of violence needed to get the job done. It has yet to be determined if it was the tasering that caused his death.

You completely miss my point Raparee. My comment was a response to Duke who said he (the victim) brought it on himself because of the way he was acting. I did not criticise the police, I disagreed with Duke that the man was necessarily responsible.

Police are trained in escalation scenarios. These go from verbal compliance efforts, to open handed techniques, physical seizure, use of baton, taser, armed force. Whatever they do has to fit the circumstances. There is no absolute power to make arrests by any necessary means.

One witness to the tasering said - and analysis of the tape could confirm same - that 1 cop asked another if he should tase. A choice was made to use potential mortal force against someone who had not harmed anyone, and who had raised his arms in compliance.

Point the finger for cop crime on both the Courts and Dirk Ryneveld of the Police Complaints Commission. That ex-prosecutor (actually Deputy Regional Crown Counsel)does zero effective oversight of policing. And our paid fact finders? See how Judge Gulbransen (ex Deputy Regional Crown Counsel) unfounded a Common Assault charge against a cop who inflicted an injurious kick to the head of a captive, whose writhing in agony from a police dog bite, was allowed to be non-compliance.
http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2005/01/p05_0188.htm

Then there is the case where a North Van cop broke the jaw of a handcuffed suspect.
http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2005/00/p05_0040.htm

Surprise! After Crown Counsel registered the above charges, both blue animals were allowed to retain full police powers, including use of service revolvers. Although Tait was convicted, he never spent a second in jail and even benefited from a later reduction of his lame sentence. A North Shore News columnist praised his atrocity against a handcuffed suspect.

See how a judge (ex prosecutor) acquitted a cop who was videotaped tossing a handcuffed man on the ground, because the intoxicated man was mumbling.
http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2007/01/p07_0113.htm

Then there was the case where an ex-prosecutor judge threw out a charge against a Delta cop, mid trial even though
another cop testified that the offender - Cst Atwal - had smashed a suspect's head against a service vehicle, causing a huge dent and injury to the man.

I have seen enough. Judges are fixing cases in BC. AG Oppal, a cop doormat when he was a judge, will NEVER appoint a member of the Defence Bar to the Bench. Remember when Justice Leask of the Supreme Court was hung out to dry for uttering non prejudicial profanities during a trial? CJ Brenner ensured that Oppal had a copy of the trial transcript, within minutes, and issued preliminary statements on the matter before the media within 3 hours. But Oppal-Brenner are well aware that only the federal Canadian Judicial Council has jurisdiction over complaints against federally appointed judges. They interfered because: Leask was a rare Defence Bar appointment (prior to the Oppal regime); Leask once petitioned against a Provincial Court judge (see Leask v Judge Cronin on Westlaw), when he served as a Defence attorney.

Why have Brenner-Oppal (both of Administrative Law backgrounds) stood against Defence Bar appointments? Because persons of that background are MOST likely to apply natural justice to facts before them. The Prosecutor-Bench NEVER act with a shred of public purpose.

Media: check this out. FINDINGS - not pleadings - of Charter violations by cops are only applied in 1 of 10 cases in our fascistic courts. When they want to convict an innocent they merely claim, exclusion of unlawfully attained evidence would reduce the reputation of justice. Persons before PCBC judges are voided of rights; cop perjury is sacramental to the Government-Bench. Evidence in irrelevant in BC courts; suspects are not judged, but are sandbagged after targeting. In general, the judicial-policial-prosecutorial agencies are totally integrated, and their administration is totalitarian and dictatorial.

"You completely miss my point Raparee. My comment was a response to Duke who said he (the victim) brought it on himself because of the way he was acting. I did not criticise the police, I disagreed with Duke that the man was necessarily responsible."

Ammonra, he brought on THE TASERING himself. Not death. THE TASERING.

I never claimed that he brought his death on himself, but the situation that caused it.

Who's fault was it that the situation got so out of hand that the police even needed to be called ~ let alone that he needed to be tasered (or pepper sprayed or whatever)???

It was HIS OWN doing. HIS OWN negative behavior. HIS OWN violent/destructive outburst that escalated the situation to the point the the police were even called.

That's why he brought THE TASERING on himself.

As for Diplomat - Show me a medical report that says that it was the tasering - and the tasering alone - that caused his death (and not a pre-existing condition, the cops knee on his neck etc.) and I'll give you your kudos regarding your point that it was the 50,000 volts caused the tragedy.

But you can't, so no kudos for you.

Again, I say this: If someone breaks into your home and starts tearing the place apart, and you call the cops - and the crook that's ripping your house apart doesn't heed the commands of the police, you'd be BEGGING them to taser his or her rear-end into next week. You know you would.

Face it. Complaining about the RCMP is the 'in thing to do' in Canada, much as whining about George W. is in the states. I'm just not joining the masses.

The Police have the toughest job going, so I'm backing em' 100%. Are they perfect? No.

But until you walk a mile in their shoes - ease off on the blame game.

Now off to Tim Hortons I go.

Ammonra:
The gentleman IS ultimately responsible for what happened, provided his behaviour was not the result of a medical condition. Had he not been throwing chairs across the room, police response would not have been necessary.

You win, Duke! The man committed taser-assisted suicide!

There; now go see your buddies at Tim Hortons.

I have two more points. One is that he was not acting violent in a way that was a threat to anyone. He committed vandalism in a public place, not a private home, and showed no signs of aggression against any single person police or bystander. The situation could have easily been contained and dealt with through none violent actions on the part of the RCMP. We pay the RCMP to deescalate the situation not to escalate to the point where someone dies on their arrival.

As for the Clay Wiley tazer killing... he was an old friend of mine from high-school and he too did not deserve to die at the hands of a tazer. He was one of the most genuine good hearted person you would ever met, but if you were kicked in the nuts (as he was) by an officer when in a drunken state you might put up a fight as well. That was his death sentence at the hands of the RCMP.

This man was held by Immigration Canada in excess of 6 hours before being granted landed Immigrant status. Who knows what kind of hassle went on between him and Immigration, however we all have our horror stories of dealing with Customs Officials, and Airport Security. His Mother was in a different part of the Airport trying to locate him, however Airport Security, and Airlines do not communicate directly with Customs and Immigration.

So in effect we have a situation where 9 Hours after arrival no one at the Airport could help this women locate her son and find out what the delay was. That is why the Vancouver Airport Authority is having its own investigation into the matter.

One can maybe see how this person, who could only communicate in Polish might become somewhat irrational.

The Police Action in this case has no defence. What took place borders on the criminal

This is a blight on the RCMP who used to be a proud police force.

It is a blight on Canada and an affront to
Canadians.

The use of Tasers on people who have not committed any serious crime, or who are not a threat borders on assualt.

Police in this Country are very quickly losing public support, and the Federal Government has to get off its ass, and get rid of these tasers. If the police dont want to work without tasers then they can get a job driving logging trucks, climbing telephone poles, or whatever.

We the people pay the police, and we tell them how they can police. If they dont like it they can quit. This Macho s..t has to stop.

There is also the question why the airport administration failed to address this whole situation properly.

After Mr. Dziekanski stopped breathing someone should have immediately started CPR and a call should have been made to the two medics who are always stationed at the airport. According to the news they could have been on the scene to attend to Mr. Dziekanski within two minutes.

This was not done, but an ambulance was called instead which took 12 minutes to arrive, too late for anything to be done.

An international airport of the size of Vancouver's must have a properly trained crisis intervention team on site.

Just relying on a team of 4 burly RCMP officers to deal with situations such as this one plus a multitude of others which may arise from completely different circumstances is simply not good enough.

With the Winter Olympics coming soon the standards of both the airport and the RCMP ought better be raised to a much higher level.

Our reputation around the world is taking a real beating!

Perhaps a moratorium on the use of tasers may indeed be given consideration.

Has anyone on this site ever been tasered? Has anyone on this site ever seen anyone tasered besides the video we all saw on the Global yesterday? Has anyone reviewed where the use of a taser fits within the "use of force" model used by the RCMP? Has anyone visited the taser webiste and observed how its deployment can save the lives of police officers and other members of the public? Is anyone here aware that members of the RCMP are tasered before being allowed to use it. Ben, jumping on the bandwagon again....man that makes great news!!! Everyone keep on hating...stay in the dark its a much safer place...the police will stay in the light of the public eye where sometimes things go wrong. Be careful of the paper cuts people!

Interesting, Chad, that you remember Wiley as a good natured man. I rememeber him as a pimp, a crack dealer, and a man who violated dozens of citizens in this city by breaking into their homes and robbing them. But you're right. He didn't deserve to die, and if he wasn't coked out of his brain, your friend might be alive today. But that's another matter.
"He was not acting in any violent way?" Really? He was throwing furnature around the place, destroying property. If that's not violent behaviour what is? His behaviour was violent towards every person in that terminal. Had you been there while he was re-arranging the furnature wouldn't you have felt threatened?
Tasering Mr. Dziekanski was an appropriate responce to his behaviour. Expecting rationality from somone acting so irrational, is irrational. What should change, policy wise, is the follow-up following a taser incident. Under appropriate situations, medical attention should be administered.

I don't know if you’re talking about the same Clayton Willy that I knew then. I knew a guy in high-school that was a good guy farmer dude that lived out Blackburn. I find it hard to believe he would have been associated with the things you claim. He was tough as nails if you messed with him, but otherwise good natured. I didn't know him after school till the time he was put down by the RCMP with a tazer, so I cn’t speak of his character at the time other than it is irrelevant.

Raparee, seems to be justifying the road side justice as appropriate because of police judgement of the mans worth to live. I'm not sure most people in a free society agree with that form of justice. That’s worse than the Nazi brownshirts.

All I saw of Mr. Dziekanski was him backing up; and at no point was he moving in the direction of the officers involved.

The prior vandalism committed by Mr. Dziekanski is almost completely irrelevant to the immediate circumstances surrounding the moment the RCMP arrived on the scene and the 23 seconds before the electrode was fired into Mr. Dziekanski neck with 4… 5-second bursts of 50,000 volts.

Robert Dziekanski, victim of a brutal police action at the Vancouver Airport.

I am still shaking all over after watching that video and I am not easily shaken. And even though I appreciate all technicalities related to the use and alleged purpose of the taser, I agree with those who try to see the real problem here.
Just imagine a person, who spent 24 hours in travel, which, by the way, was his first air travel ever. After being possibly deprived of sleep and definitely tired and excited he was made to wander for 10 hours in the airport. Well, I am a traveler myself but even with my 250 k miles traveled in one year I would be quite distressed in a situation like that. What does not make things easier this person did not speak a word English.
He arrived in Canada following his mother’s invitation with a hope to build new, better life here. Instead he was considered a curio that “speaks only Russian”. NOBODY made attempt to any offer understanding or even communication. Polish embassy has enough resources, a translator on standby, just for situations like that.
Canada proud itself to be a multicultural and multinational country that treats all the people equally. At the same token it seems to me that the old Rudyard Kipling’s quote “lesser breeds without the law” is still alive.
Four RCMP subduing an unarmed and surrendering man with two taser shots. That is real bravery. And I still see them climbing on top of him and that brings back the memories of Nazis, who equally calmly subdued and murdered those they did not understand and chose to treat them with no dignity. After killing a man, just like those strong and proud RCMP, they would kick the unconscious man and smoke a cigarette watching him fade away.
Or maybe I should remind you of the KGB and Polish secret police methods? Those were different because they stemmed from the same nation but the political differences were so vast, that the common folk were considered “lesser breed”. The methods of vanquishing the enemy were the same as Nazi’s.
Strip the man of his dignity and let him die.

RCMP troopers who took part in the Vancouver Airport action are a disgrace to all ideals that Canadians stand for. They are a disgrace to the force and all their comrades, who have fallen in the line of duty.
They should be treated as brutal murderers, performing a premeditated crime against human life and human dignity. There is no excuse for a treatment of human being that way, even if it does not end with this person’s death.

At this moment I feel ashamed to be Canadian.

to Raparee.

I understand your position. On the other hand, I excuse your lack of understanding the taser victim's position only if you were not one of the officials who administered the taser shot.

Yes, Mr. Dziekanski’s actions were assessed by the cops and THEY decided to use force to subdue him. Whether taser was appropriate or not, it is a separate discussion.
You seem to concentrate on the facts. I don’t know if Mr. Dziekanski had a medical condition. I know that he was highly agitated and I strongly believe that after his flight and arrival experience he only needed a sympathetic official, who would reassure him, understood his problems and offered a cup of coffee. But that requires a bit of tact, good will, hot water and java beans. It is much easier to jump to conclusions and than “ooops, we killed him”.
To me an unquestioned fact is: he was alive until the RCMP stepped in and dead after they were done with him. Taser or not, this has no bearing. They could have shot him in the back of his head with their guns. To him and his mother the result is the same.

Wow, Duke for Premier. Like a Texas law-maker or the dreaded scythe wielding grim reaper, he shows no empathy for an innocent man obviously in severe distress. Mr Dziekanski's behavior certainly didn't deserve the end result. I've viewed the videos from many sources and i am sickened by the events that took place. As far as i could tell, the victims' breathing and body language lean more to the notion that he may have been experiencing some form of medical condition. Some of you have very good points, but most WOW, i can't believe this world we live in. I am finding it impossible to write anymore. I keep trying to write something in response to some of the moronic posts, but i fear it'll just instigate more stupidity. So i'll go another route, kudos to the lady that tried to help. The Vancouver Airport and parties involved better get their **** together, there's a world class event coming. This event is just as much the fault of the airport management as anyone elses. The Vancouver International Airport is the host to millions of passengers to one of the most liveable cities in the world, one would think they could of had access to an interpreter at the onset of Mr Dziekanski's detention. What a difference one phone call could have made. The victim was probably not fighting his assailants,i'd say he was fighting for his life. But just to make sure,one should break his knuckles with a baton to see if they react or are they dead. 4 gung-ho cops killed a man i wouldn't be afraid to attempt to subdue. He harmed nobody, just scared them. You all scare me but i'm not running around trying to impale your heads on stakes like Vlad. Some high ranking officials need to be fired and quick, they are obviously underqualified to showcase Vancouver, nevermind BC to the world.

Ben Meisner and/or editor, you've let this one go too long!!!!

Video evidence, like a picture, is worth more than a thousand words.

I see all kinds of talking heads on TV now, all of them carefully spinning a story about this undeserved and unnecessary death instead of coming right out and admitting what is clearly a terrible mistake.

Thanks, editor, for letting everyone express their opinion. The majority is outraged and feels shame and sorrow for what happened and compassion for the unfortunate victim and his mother.

If there is a fund established to assist Mrs. Dziekanski in her difficult time please let me know how I can contribute.

to Raparee.

I understand your position. On the other hand, I excuse your lack of understanding the taser victim's position only if you were not one of the officials who administered the taser shot.

Yes, Mr. Dziekanski’s actions were assessed by the cops and THEY decided to use force to subdue him. Whether taser was appropriate or not, it is a separate discussion.
You seem to concentrate on the facts. I don’t know if Mr. Dziekanski had a medical condition. I know that he was highly agitated and I strongly believe that after his flight and arrival experience he only needed a sympathetic official, who would reassure him, understood his problems and offered a cup of coffee. But that requires a bit of tact, good will, hot water and java beans. It is much easier to jump to conclusions and than “ooops, we killed him”.
To me an unquestioned fact is: he was alive until the RCMP stepped in and dead after they were done with him. Taser or not, this has no bearing. They could have shot him in the back of his head with their guns. To him and his mother the result is the same.

to Raparee.

I understand your position. On the other hand, I excuse your lack of understanding the taser victim's position only if you were not one of the officials who administered the taser shot.

Yes, Mr. Dziekanski’s actions were assessed by the cops and THEY decided to use force to subdue him. Whether taser was appropriate or not, it is a separate discussion.
You seem to concentrate on the facts. I don’t know if Mr. Dziekanski had a medical condition. I know that he was highly agitated and I strongly believe that after his flight and arrival experience he only needed a sympathetic official, who would reassure him, understood his problems and offered a cup of coffee. But that requires a bit of tact, good will, hot water and java beans. It is much easier to jump to conclusions and than “ooops, we killed him”.
To me an unquestioned fact is: he was alive until the RCMP stepped in and dead after they were done with him. Taser or not, this has no bearing. They could have shot him in the back of his head with their guns. To him and his mother the result is the same.

I think I understand you, CanCan. Might I recommend that from now on all international airports hire coffee-armed security people, dressed as a teddy bears, to administer java and hugs to those poor freedom seeking people throwing furniture and computers around the terminal.

He was alive until the police stepped in. That's right. But why did the RCMP step in? Because he was a violent, incoherent, large man destroying property and threatening other people in the area.

"Yes, Mr. Dziekanski’s actions were assessed by the cops and THEY decided to use force to subdue him."

Where did you see or hear anyone assessing the situation? I missed that part i guess. Was it edited out? Damn i'm going to to the Dollar Store, i've bought the 50 cent pair of glasses!

Seems to me pit bulls have been given a bad rap, or too much Hortons.

Another win for Raparee. So killing him was fully justified because it restored peace in the area. Comrade Stalin used to say: "there is a man - there is a problem, there is no man - there is no problem". Congratulations on the choice of teacher. I rest my case.

pisspulper
You are absolutely right.
It was my assumption, as an ignorant, that whoever deals with humans should have common decency to at least "assess" what needs to be done: pull the triget or pat on the shoulder.
My wrong. I give it to you.

Duke, I just read all your postings again. If you are a policeman, which I think you are, God protect me from you, because you are more of a danger to me than a common criminal. Being a protector of society you seem to be happy to take the law in your hands. Tasering being one of the forms of punishment rather than necessary means to subdue a violent person.
May I remind, that the police is supposed to uphold the law and SERVE the public, rather, than executing even the guilty ones.

Duke, I just read all your postings again. If you are a policeman, which I think you are, God protect me from you, because you are more of a danger to me than a common criminal. Being a protector of society you seem to be happy to take the law in your hands. Tasering being one of the forms of punishment rather than necessary means to subdue a violent person.
May I remind, that the police is supposed to uphold the law and SERVE the public, rather, than executing even the guilty ones.

No CanCan, it was not appropriate to kill him, but then, that WAS NOT THE POLICE'S INTENT. If the police intended on "executing the guilty ones", they would not have used a NON-LETHAL WEAPON. They would have used their side arm.

Duke, I just read all your postings again. If you are a policeman, which I think you are, God protect me from you, because you are more of a danger to me than a common criminal. Being a protector of society you seem to be happy to take the law in your hands. Tasering being one of the forms of punishment rather than necessary means to subdue a violent person.
May I remind, that the police is supposed to uphold the law and SERVE the public, rather, than executing even the guilty ones.

Duke, I just read all your postings again. If you are a policeman, which I think you are, God protect me from you, because you are more of a danger to me than a common criminal. Being a protector of society you seem to be happy to take the law in your hands. Tasering being one of the forms of punishment rather than necessary means to subdue a violent person.
May I remind, that the police is supposed to uphold the law and SERVE the public, rather, than executing even the guilty ones.

One salient fact that I have not seen mentioned on this thread is that a brave man named Pritchard had the guts to first record the actions of the storm troopers and then the civic responsibility to turn the recording in to the rcmp. When the rcmp refused to give it back to him, he hired a lawyer, and together with the media they were instrumental in bringing this issue to the attention of the public. I do not agree with those who side with the police on this matter, that smacks of blind faith in the justice system. Those of you who have read some of my opinions (for what they are worth) know that I can be outspoken on what seems to be an injustice, but at the same time I believe strongly in law and order. I respect the police, in general, and know that we have to have them, or life would be a lot worse than it is. This website is a valuable forum for our opinions, and should be protected and promoted as a tool in the continuing struggle to retain our right of free speech. Thank you for allowing this discussion to continue.
metalman.

Duke, I just read all your postings again. If you are a policeman, which I think you are, God protect me from you, because you are more of a danger to me than a common criminal. Being a protector of society you seem to be happy to take the law in your hands. Tasering being one of the forms of punishment rather than necessary means to subdue a violent person.
May I remind, that the police is supposed to uphold the law and SERVE the public, rather, than executing even the guilty ones.

Once again: the video is evidence in an investigation. Of coarse they're not going to give it back until the investigation is finished. It's not blind faith, it's common sence.

Posted by: pisspulper on November 17 2007 10:04 AM
Posted by: dgdiggler on November 16 2007 6:25 PM
Hey reparee, don't worry about heidi...she's just transferring all of her frustration over from the st arnaud thing...no father for her kid and all that stuff.....

Ok Ben, this is not your fault. Just a insight into what i mean when i say "stupid postings". Stupid is the polite version of what i'd rather say. For those of who know Heidi and her circumstances, you should all be appalled regardless of your opinion of her. This is absolutely abhorrent commentary, especially the last line. It's no wonder she didn't retort, so i'll help her out. DGDIGGLER you are truly a ****** idiot. Not that you haven't already proven that to most people on 250. What kind of of moron makes a statement like that, albeit not your first time. DG your obviously not mature enough to be posting anything, and yes youv'e proven that also. Be a man and apologize. Otherwise, keep your non-constructive assinine remarks in the back corner of the bat cave you reside.