Boy oh boy, I bet Owl could get some engineers off the web that could blow a big enough hole that the ice pieces would never come back down! Heehee!

For those that don't know, I'm not making lite of the situation that the businesses are in down there. It's just that I just have this trick knee that acts up everytime I read some stupid comment is all.

So does this mean that all of the incompetent idiots who suggested that we may have to let nature run its' course, were actually right? Imagine that . . . LOL.

You have to let nature take its course now NMG because no action was taken in regards to dredging the channel, in the last 40 years.

Lets see what they do this summer. If they do nothing then we will get more of the same.

Oh I see. So all those posts that talked about blaming government for not acting, for doing studies instead of "getting down to work", for watching this situation get worse when they could've just called in some "loggers & contractors" to fix the problem, were actually directed at everyone who could have made the decision to dredge the channel since 1967? I get it now. I suppose the same holds true for the personal barbs that were thrown in the direction of all the mindless government workers and politicians, LOL.

I just hope people don't break their ankles backpedaling in the snow and ice :)

"The only really long term solution to this current problem on the Nechalko, and it's not isolated by any means, is some decent diking along there. That will basically solve the problem. Anything else is stop-gap, catch-as-catch can," Doyle said.

The most important thing these guys had to say was not reported.

As reported above: "You have to let nature take its course now NMG because no action was taken in regards to dredging the channel, in the last 40 years."

Right on! I have posted several websites in the past couple of days on the many start up articles on this topic on this site. Since none of those articles are linked to each other by themes, such comments get lost. That is one of the most frustrating things about this site.

While this is a great site, I wish Ben and Elaine would find a different system of posting which are theme linked such as is used on most blogs. The software is normally “free-ware” costing nothing or close to nothing.

Anyway, as far as ice gorges go, long term solution has been found by many other communities in the world that has reduced the frequency and the impact of each actual occurrence considerably. The solution is typically a combination of dredging one or more channels, creating some sort of weir system which breaks ice up into smaller pieces and putting that weir well above the major habitation area, keeping channels next to shore clear by using bubblers, having proper equipment ready to handle ice dams should they occur. That equipment seems to include cranes which can be used form shore in a similar fashion as a pile driver as well as pumps which can create high pressure and pump the water from the river so that the water can be sprayed on the floes to reduce them in size and cause them to dislodge.

Finally, I would also not give up on blasting. For some reason or another it used to work in the past. Maybe we have to dig some of those oldtimers up from their graves.

;-)

Just keep this in mind. If the engineers say that nothing can be done, their liability insurance will no go up due to a claim.

If they take action, give a prescription of something to do to try to change the course of the water, and they make a mistake, their insurance rate will skyrocket and they will have to pay for the deductible and they may also be charged under the criminal code for lack of due diligence.

What I would like to hear is the risk assessment they are going through.

1. if we do nothing, and the river continues to be blocked, how high will the water rise and where will the natural diversion channels be?

2. Should that happen, should we be digging or routing natural diversion channels right now in those areas that are not under water and are safe to work in?

3. for every foot rise in the water, how many more areas will be under water?

4. what will the increase in cost of the latter do nothing approach be compared to the increase in cost if some action were taken to prevent the water from reaching an acceptable (given the existing conditions) plateau?

I could go on, but some of you may get the drift here. Let these guys do some work and show us how expert they really are rather than just sitting there and pontificating in front of cameras.

NMG I cant answer for other posts, however having lived here for many years, I have observed the Nechako and Fraser rivers under various conditions. One thing in the last 40 years that I havent observed is any level of Government doing anything on these rivers that would increase the flow, and decrease the possibility of ice jams, or flooding.

Now when it comes to recreational things like trails, boat launches, etc;, you see some action, even if the trails are flooded and have to be redone on a consistant basis. Seems recreation **crap** takes precedence over more serious problems.

You could make a similiar argument in regards to a Dangerous Goods route through the City. Nothing has been done about a Dangerous Goods route for 40 years.

As far as I know the official dangerous goods route through the City is still First Avenue from 16 East to Cameron St.,Bridge, to the Hart Hiway, and Victoria St. to 16 West and 97 South.

I doubt if there have been any changes for years, and suspect that the closing of the Cameron St. bridge and re-routing via Carney St., and 5th Avenue is not properly documented, and if it is it has not been followed up with proper signage.

It seems that Dangerous Goods trucks can pretty well use whatever route they chose, and the people who stood by and did nothing with the river, are also standing (or sitting) around watching the trucks, and probably wont do anything until we have a problem.

"It seems that Dangerous Goods trucks can pretty well use whatever route they chose, and the people who stood by and did nothing with the river, are also standing (or sitting) around watching the trucks, and probably wont do anything until we have a problem"

No disagreement there Palopu. It's classic PG small picture thinking. It happens with just about EVERYTHING in this City.

Palopu is right on.

I posted this before on one of these threads about the ice jam. However, since they are all disconnected, some will no have seen it.

This is put together by the provnice of New Brunswick. I notice that BC has nothing like that. It is a reasonably good overview of what can and should be done, but has not been done. We don't even have any monitoring stations. I know there is one on the Fraser, and one at Isle Pierre, I believe dealing with water level. Not sure what other data it collects.

For inatance, do any of the engineers know where the key channels are under the ice thorugh which water is still flowing and whether these are getting larger or smaller? Based on the upstream water temperature, can they estimate how much ice might be forming or might be melting?

Is this a guessing game or an engineering problem which can be solved with some degree of certitude?

http://www.gnb.ca/0009/0369/0004/0004-e.asp

And then there is the key question, of course.

Can they determine whether Alcan should reduce the water being released, keep it as is, or maybe even increase it.

That is a loaded question, I suppose, since the answer would go to the question of whether Alcan is at fault or partially at fault of making a bad situation worse. That would be far too litigious

;-)

If "ice experts" say we need to ride it out, then presumably they can't really do anything.

Since "riding it out" is the only option they can come up with, perhaps they should ride out of town without their fee.

Owl says "..I could go on, but.."

No way! Heehee! We'll find another theme for you, that'll cheer Owl up. And don't worry about cross-over on several websites, just post the same stuff every time, that way nobody will miss your stuff.

This happened before the Internet came along, but the river water does adjust and will scour new channels, nothing stops water for long. The Little Smoky by Peace River scoured a hole 50 feet deep to go under an ice plug that was building itself out of frazzle. It was so new and unusual the crew ended up putting a core drill on top of the plug to monitor the formation and water speed that could do something like this.

Face it, this area of PG is in the river channel, not the otherway around.

"Using dynamite just won’t work says Andres “
-Thats what you get when you let an "ice expert" supervise dynamite. I bet a good explosives expert could at least get some of it moving but the kicker here is how much do you want to use and how much do you want to spend on explosives.

"this area of PG is in the river channel,not the other way around".
Exactly Yama!!!
And if it decides to move, or not to move,that's what it will do!
I still think only an explosives expert who actually understands what dynamite will and will not do,can tell us whether or not blasting could be at least partly successful.
A number of years ago we built a small timber and cement dam on small creek to flood the lowlands behind it.
Somehow,no matter how much we let run over the top of the damn,the creek always found a way around it.
Mother nature did what she wanted to do,and to hell with us!