It is truly time our provincial leaders stood up to the plate, admit they have made a grevious error and shut down these fish farms.

I guess I am a part of the .01% that does not think that the "wild Pacific salmon is a blessing and forms part of the soul of British Columbia". I do agree that it is a blessing as much as all of God's created things are a blessing for food and clothing, etc. I choose to worship the Creator, not the creation and ultimatley all lands and animals belong to Him.

I work part time as a a beef farmer. To draw and analogy, I do not think that wildlife such as moose or deer form part of the soul of Prince George at the expense of cows. Mr. Mare's philosophy carried out to its ridiculous end could justify punishing farmers for daring to raise cows at the expense of the "sanctity of our city".

I fully agree, but the problem is it is Pat Bell our PG North MLA who is the Agricultural Minister that is the authority in charge of fish farm licenses. Pat favours the expansion of the fish farm industry IMO because they support liberals, and also he has the benefit that people in PG North don't vote based on the fish farm license issue.

I support wild salmon over Pat Bell.

Nun makes absolutely no sense to me. Wild salmon have a right IMO to at least a fair chance of survival as a species.

This idea that man can remake nature because nature is gods creation and those that worship this god then thus have the right to destroy anything in nature to remake in their own image because they do so with the authority of god the creator to destroy his creation and replace with our own that is somehow in the minds of the foggy bottom a blessed thing because that’s what god wants us to do? Pure non sense... god wants us to respect and live alongside our neighbour, and our neighbour is not limited to the human species, but IMO includes other species of nature. I think the Indians of old had it right when they respected the bounty that nature provided as well as their place in the scheme of things. I don't think we can go back to that, but we don't need to be stupid either and listen to clearly demented people who with no science say lets destroy the species of nature in order to replace it with something greater made by man. These are the kinds of people that support senseless wars in the name of religious ideals, and then they take this philosophy upon nature itself, when really their god is money and righteous supremacy and not the god of the Jesus whom's birthday we celebrate this week.

Also the creator is the creation, they are not mutually exclusive to one another.

Also nunwit raising cows in a field in no way chokes the life out of moose and such living in the woods around PG, unless of course Nunwit is poaching them. With Nuwits ideology we should import 1 million genetically modified moose to his farm to graze on his grass and oats that he worked hard to grow, but they will be contained to his farm and they will not be allowed out from the farm to use a proper toilet. If the disese spreads to his cattle and kills them all off... then too bad for nunwit; we now like to eat genetically modified moose instead, because... I don't know I can't figure the ideology out.

nunweilerg: "I choose to worship the Creator, not the creation and ultimatley all lands and animals belong to Him."

One may worship the *Creator* without despoiling the *creation.*

I don't want to say more than that because I don't want to invite the posting of lengthy passages from the bible which claim that mankind is the pinnacle of creation and therefore not accountable for the dastardly deeds it inflicts on the environment and the creatures that have evolved in a harmonious balance over hundreds of millennia.

Deer meat and moose meat are healthier than cow meat. Natural salmon is far healthier to consume than the fish that are raised in underwater cages, full of antibiotics and disease, fed offal from slaughtering houses - the stuff that would otherwise be unsuitable for consumption!

Have a Happy Holiday!

Just because something is peer reviewed and published in the "Journal of Science" does not make the subject accurate. Look at so called man caused global warming, it was peer reviewed and know look at how it is falling apart.
All I am trying to say is find as much information as possible then come to your own conclusion.

"Look at so called man caused global warming, it was peer reviewed and know look at how it is falling apart."

Not a good example as, far from falling apart, that global warming is at least partly due to human activity has gained near universal acceptance among scientists.

Note also that prohibiting the current practice does not mean an end to fish-farming in the province. It is perfectly possible to farm fish in rivers with no wild population.

Diplomat: if you dont want to say more for fear of hearing someone elses arguement (agree with it or not) then dont say anything. Forstalling a response, biblical or otherwise is not fair play.
As for the reliability of scientific literature, well all I can say is it is not perfect but at least it attempts to be subjective and it has been reviewed. As a scientist I am aware of the limitations of scientific fact. However, what else is there to go on?
For all those of you who want to pull fish farm licences, i do hope you want the owners compensated....

Caranmacil, relax! Only the editor can engage in *forestalling*! I have never been *afraid* of hearing someone else's arguments, whether they are sound or not. Biblical arguments are not my cup of tea, by my own choosing, and I fall asleep most of the time a few minutes after someone starts to preach yet again.

Back to reality: More than 1800 eminent scientists, among them many Nobel Laureates have reached consensus that mankind's activities are contributing to a very significant degree to the sharp increase in global temperatures.

Fish farming can be done on land, in tanks. All the water used can be filtered and cleaned up before it is returned to the ocean.

Of course, it would make the product more expensive and cut into potential profits because consumers have the final say when it comes to willingness to pay.

Eagleone: "These are the kinds of people that support senseless wars in the name of religious ideals, and then they take this philosophy upon nature itself, when really their god is money and righteous supremacy and not the god of the Jesus whom's birthday we celebrate this week."

Well said, in my opinion.

Diplomat's attempt to "straighten out" my quote leaves me a little puzzled:
"One may worship the *Creator* without despoiling the *creation.* "

I do not disagree with this statement but it can mean different things to different people depending on their definitions and presuppositions. I believe God, as stated in the Bible, put man in charge of the earth as stewards (good caretakers) or gardeners, if you will. Folks who have a purely naturalistic view (i.e. the supernatural cannot happen), are antagonistic toward God and the Bible as a product of their worldview.

As to defining what is harmful to the environment, one should also take into consideration what is harmful to the domesticated animal or fish: free range chickens vs. caged chickens; free range livestock vs. fenced range livestock vs. close penned livestock. A friend of mine who had a large indoor fish aquarium told me that the aquarium was like a toilet compared to keeping fish in the sea(“caged”, or otherwise). Inland bodies of water such as lakes, artificial lakes, or ponds do not necessarily make more sense to me but my point was the premise, presupposition, or worldview that Mr. Mare uses to make these decisions. His worldview forces man to take a back seat to "Mother Nature" and that is my concern.

Israel has had inland fish farms (artificial ponds) for many years and has been successful at it. The coastal plain in Israel is more conducive to this type of fish farming and Israel probably enjoys higher prices for their fish to make it more economical.

Diplomat’s remark “...the bible which claim that mankind is the pinnacle of creation and therefore not accountable for the dastardly deeds it inflicts on the environment and the creatures that have evolved in a harmonious balance over hundreds of millennia.” This remark does not represent reality. One needs only to travel to a Moslem country to see the garbage and carelessness to the environment. I recently read an article from Readers Digest about a vet doing an operation on a camel that had a blocked digestive system from ingesting bale twine. Why? Because there was poly twine, from bales of feed, everywhere.

Some good points in your post, nunweilerg!

You will probably agree that it is not a problem solving argument to compare a Moslem country's garbage and carelessness to the environment with the garbage and carelessness that we have shown over here where the majority of the people say that they believe in the Bible.

Since it doesn't seem to make much sense to compare the pot to the kettle (religions, per se) and which one is more black it would probably be just as well to leave religion to the realm of personal conviction and the solving of environmental problems to science.

It doesn't matter to the environment whether the motivator is a believer or an atheist, agnostic or simply a lover of nature.

We need some action.

Here is an argument (hypothesis).

Hypothesis: All religion is man's attempt to attain favour with a transcendent power.

I will define favour as doing good works. There can be minor exceptions to this, like Satanism, which is dedicated to the undermining of another religion.

David Suzuki, the champion of the environmental movement has said in a recent TV program that evolution cannot explain the first cause or spark to life. I am quite sure I heard him mention the G__ word in this program as to how he thinks initial life appeared. After this according to his ideas, evolution took over. By the way, I think he is using sound scientific logic in this assumption, as far as evolution being unable to create life.

I assume that Mr. Suzuki’s religion requires him to achieve good environmental practices to obtain favour with his “higher power”. Following from this, is that man must somehow be debased or handicapped in his worldly activities because he has been too successful – perhaps one could call this penance. One could say that orthodoxy is not achieved in this environmental faith until one renounces a progressive society in terms of technology and energy development, etc. Anyway I am getting off topic and apologize for the cheap shots as far as this discussion goes.

Many theologians classify Buddhism as an atheistic religion. I agree with this classification as the Buddhist religion says something like “god is in everything and everything has an element of god in it”. This basically makes the term God redundant as far as being a transcendent power is concerned. I think Mr. Suzuki’s beliefs most resemble Buddhism as far as tradition world religions are concerned. Therefore atheists and atheism is a religion.

Conclusion: Since Christianity does not require good works as the primary qualification for favour with its transcendent (Transcendent) power, Christianity is not a religion but all other worldviews are.

That is my proof. Of course this makes complete sense to me, given my worldview: Christianity represents the truth (Truth). But it is hard to grasp it if all one believes in is naturalism.

Facts are that Nunweilerg is not a Christian, but rather an atheist Jew that preaches his version of Christianity as it serves the zionist political ideology. An ideology that will twist reality in anyway that will serve its members for advantage. There is nothing wrong with being a Jew, but denying it to fool others is IMO unethical from the start.

For your information Nunweilerg could it be that the fish farming is so successful in Israel because the original inhabitants of Palestine (Jesus decedents) are shot and kill and their boats are sunk if they dare try to subsistence fish off their own coast line, as the zionist state of Israel chokes them off of any ability to feed their families let alone contact the outside world. The zionist policies of Israel that cage up humans of lesser ideology (in their zionist opinion) as a way of apartheid generational genocide is a policy platform that makes fish farming viable for those that are the 'chosen ones'.

That my friend is not a Christian value and you are not one to preach Christian values.

Jesus decedents were Hebrew as the founding basis of his beliefs. Ditto for Christians and Muslims, and even some would say the Jews of today. The facts are though that there were no Jews in Jesus time (the word didn't even exist until it was used by the Kazars nearly 1600 years after Jesus time), and that modern day Jews are 90% Kazars from Georgia (not Palestine) that adopted this Hebrew religion as a means to bind a people as a captive population for trickery and insidious plots against those they have deemed lesser humans simply because they belong to another group then the 'chosen ones'.

Today we are taught by our zionist owned and controlled media that a Jew is a Hebrew to perpetuate the lie that allows for a people to steal another country from its inhabitants in the holy land through apartheid and genocideal policies, so that this 'chosen people' can use that important biblical land as a base for world bankster power in their satanic attempt to control the world through money, raw power, unaccountability, and the perversion of all religions. It is a policy supported by this and past Canadian governments.

Tonight the birth place of Jesus is surrounded by 30 foot walls and armed guards implementing racist policies for control and intimidation. Would Jesus be proud if he could see that today? Would Jesus support the subsistence fisherman or would he support the apartheid policies that enable the fish farm industry in Israel?

Hypothesis: All religion is man's attempt to attain favour with a transcendent power.

False from the start. Its about love of they neighbour (ie Christmas), and if god notices then that is an extra bonus. What you are talking about is satanism, which should not be a surprise, because that is the god who all zionists worship. I think it is time for Nunweilerg to really eveluate his own flawed belief system.

Too bad that Christianity in nunweilerg's opinion does not require primarily *good works.*

There is an adage that proclaims: "The hands that help are holier than the hands that pray."

If one thinks that God is a person who has the human failings of greed, jealousy, anger, hatred, vengeance and other human shortcomings one may also believe that one must somehow persuade God to look upon human beings with favour rather than disfavour, anger or indifference.

Rather presumptuous, in my opinion, and pitifully archaic.

Since religion has been brought into it, and the subject is fish farm pollution and the spread of parasites which are killing off pink salmon by the millions, what about this reference.

The book of Revelation talks about God ruining those who are ruining the earth. Does that not mean that a Christian MUST oppose any form of activity, including fish farms, that case damage to our planet? Or do Christians have the option of ignoring parts of their holy book when it is convenient?

Atheism is NOT a religion. Atheists do not accept the existence of a god nor gods. Atheism is the absence of religion.

Buddhism, as an outgrowth of Hinduism, does have gods and goddesses. I am looking at a brass image of one right now, from Tibet, given by a friend.

Actually nunmeilerg,religion itself, while serving a useful purpose in our society in terms of the comfort it provides to many,may in fact be nothing more than mankinds way of dealing with the fear of the unknown after death and how we came to be in the first place.
Let's face it,nobody who has died has ever come back to tell us any different, so all religions and religious based arguments will continue to be speculation until they do!

nunmeilerg: "Many theologians classify Buddhism as an atheistic religion."

I wonder how many of those *theologians* have bought their degree on-line for $49.95 plus shipping? Perhaps from a televangelist organization?

nunmeilerg: "Christianity is not a religion but all other world views are."

Straight from the mouths of the same theologians, of course.

Sir Nunmeilerg, your last post is over the top and under the bottom, IMHO.

Where is the outrage? Close the fishfarms now! While BC has full employment, this action should not be too hard to take.

Extinction is forever....fish farms have a limited life expectancy and do nothing to enhance the natural environment which we all are a part of.

I want this government to stand up to its responsibility and begin the job of dimantling the fish farms...pay compensation if neccessary.